DGPT Drops New Media Outlook for 2019

[davetherocketguy]

That is what a dirt bag sales person would do tho...Sell Sell Sell but have no firm agenda to deliver. As a former longtime salesman (and owner of a production company) a general rule is to never sell or promise anything you don't have in your hand. Working things out after selling something is the definition of a ****ty sales person.

Anyone else see "Valley of the Boom?" Why do I feel like this is a repeat of Pixelon?

Meh...take what I say with a giant grain of salt. I really know nothing about that industry.

 

[VLaForce2002]

Well in this particular instance I don't believe in what Steve is doing.

Accepted. You have a hard earned well deserved megaphone. I didn't mind you using it for Jomez the first time or two because you identify with them so much. Understandable given your background and association. I really enjoyed hearing Jomez side, but I feel now you are actively blocking the flow of information from the DGPT side (talk with Jack if you don't want to talk with Steve)

I feel like my job is to try to give context before giving an opinion, and back that opinion up with evidence as much as possible (or else state that it's purely emotional). However I don't think my job is to present both "sides" of something on equal footing if I don't believe them to be equal. I think that borders on dealing in false equivalencies.

I think this part of the conversation might fall to Charlie to engage someone else who believes just as entertainingly in the DGPT side as you do in Jomez et al.

It's possible that we disagree on whether I'm being "fair" or not. If that's our impasse I can respect the disagreement, and I do appreciate the feedback.

Also, thank you and kudos for even spending a second of your valuable time engaging a blowhard like myself in this discussion.

I want to be seen as fair as well as opinionated. All I can really say is I'm trying and my intentions are good, but I believe strongly in two things:

1. A rising tide lifts all boats

2. The ends don't justify the means

...and, without going around the record player again, I think this issue particularly puts those two beliefs at odds with one another.

It is not coming through that you wish the DGPT success. Maybe that's the thing that I'm focusing on. If you don't wish them success then say it, lean into it. If you do wish them success, well I perceive a certain amount of condemnation by faint praise... or in this case not really digging into the details that would paint Steve less a cartoon villain and more a complicated human in a set of circumstances only an insider such as yourself could illuminate.
At this point I wouldn't want anyone to root for either side because that's a zero sum game and I want a win win. What's your version of a win win? Why did Steve do what he did when he did? I'm genuinely curious and could listen to inside info from all the different camps for many podcasts

Maybe what I'm hearing is we need another podcast or video concept aiming for more strict "news reporting" and that way The Upshot stands out more clearly as an opinion podcast?

Nope. Just give all the inside juice that few besides you can deliver, or let the whole thing go.

 

[cheesethin]

I do not understand the debate, It had to happen sometime. You can not allow people to make money off the tour, that Steve is helping build,, for free. That is like the pga saying that the networks that film it and produce it but also make millions off advertising do not have to pay anything for the right to do it.

I see your general point, but there is more detail involvedI think. Some questions and points in no particular order:

1. Did the DGPT ever offer to sell the filming rights to jomez or ccdg? From what I have read I think not, it seems that their intention was to do all the video production in-house, but they just wanted one of the established production companies to do that in-house work. The rumour is that par save productions are the actual crew who are going to do the work, I do not know if this rumer is true.
2. Why is it beneficial to the dgpt to do the video production in house? Is it just so that they can brand better and stronger? Could a deal have been struck with an outside production company that they buy the rights but the branding regulations are more favourable to the dgpt?
3. Am I right in thinking that most other sporting organisations sell the rights to the video coverage, that it is in fact quite rare to do video coverage in house?
4. Were Jomez and ccdg benefiting for free from the dgpt, or were there mutual benefit to both sides? Did the next day video coverage bring more eyes to the dgpt events? Did this in turn bring in more interest, players, potentially sponsors to the dgpt events? At this early stage of the sports development were both sides helping each other to grow?

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[cheesethin]

.

-I'm confused about what the "other capacities" the DGPT pro tour is excited about welcoming existing media teams to participate in. They can show up and cover cards that aren't MPO lead, chase, or FPO lead?

According to the dgpt media opportunities document, other media teams can 'create' their own card. They get to pick 2 players, main sponsor picks one, fan vote for fourth card member. I assume this can only apply to first round.

And of course film mpo3+ and fpo2+.

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[cheesethin]

I think that aligning yourself with only one or two of the media opportunities is short sighted and serves no purpose. Of course, we know nothing of what deal Nate may have with Jomez. If he is going to get paid for commentary, perhaps part of that agreement is to not play DGPT

Sexton detailed his reasons later. Essentially because his wife is finishing her medical degree, he only has enough non-childcare time to properly compete in one tour. So he picked NT over DGPT, that choice partly informed by his current working relationship with Jomez. He also said he is not boycotting dgpt, and might do a couple of events that fit his schedule.

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[wolfmandragon]

I see your general point, but there is more detail involvedI think. Some questions and points in no particular order:

1. Did the DGPT ever offer to sell the filming rights to jomez or ccdg? From what I have read I think not, it seems that their intention was to do all the video production in-house, but they just wanted one of the established production companies to do that in-house work. The rumour is that par save productions are the actual crew who are going to do the work, I do not know if this rumer is true.
2. Why is it beneficial to the dgpt to do the video production in house? Is it just so that they can brand better and stronger? Could a deal have been struck with an outside production company that they buy the rights but the branding regulations are more favourable to the dgpt?
3. Am I right in thinking that most other sporting organisations sell the rights to the video coverage, that it is in fact quite rare to do video coverage in house?
4. Were Jomez and ccdg benefiting for free from the dgpt, or were there mutual benefit to both sides? Did the next day video coverage bring more eyes to the dgpt events? Did this in turn bring in more interest, players, potentially sponsors to the dgpt events? At this early stage of the sports development were both sides helping each other to grow?

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1. Yes. Jomez refused to work under DGPT brand.
2. Control. The DGPT would be marketing idiots to not have complete control of their brand.
3. With caveats, yes. The agency is required to do certain things, not do others and market in certain manners. See point 1.
4. Maybe. I don't have those numbers, but this point is moot at this juncture.

Yes, it appears that Dodge handled this poorly, but the change needed to happen.

 

[JTacoma03]

Minor thread drift....but is there a better spoken and/or articulate individual on these boards then JT? Not to mention always being very rational and thought out with posts. Always love seeing what he's got to say.

End drift....

Thanks! I haven't always done a good job of this, but I've been working on it. :hfive:

Accepted. You have a hard earned well deserved megaphone. I didn't mind you using it for Jomez the first time or two because you identify with them so much. Understandable given your background and association. I really enjoyed hearing Jomez side, but I feel now you are actively blocking the flow of information from the DGPT side (talk with Jack if you don't want to talk with Steve)


I think this part of the conversation might fall to Charlie to engage someone else who believes just as entertainingly in the DGPT side as you do in Jomez et al.



Also, thank you and kudos for even spending a second of your valuable time engaging a blowhard like myself in this discussion.


It is not coming through that you wish the DGPT success. Maybe that's the thing that I'm focusing on. If you don't wish them success then say it, lean into it. If you do wish them success, well I perceive a certain amount of condemnation by faint praise... or in this case not really digging into the details that would paint Steve less a cartoon villain and more a complicated human in a set of circumstances only an insider such as yourself could illuminate.
At this point I wouldn't want anyone to root for either side because that's a zero sum game and I want a win win. What's your version of a win win? Why did Steve do what he did when he did? I'm genuinely curious and could listen to inside info from all the different camps for many podcasts


Nope. Just give all the inside juice that few besides you can deliver, or let the whole thing go.

I appreciate the productive discussion and the perspective. My aim is honestly not to paint Steve as a villain, I don't think he's a bad guy, I just think he's got a habit of shooting his tour in the foot with his decisions. The DGPT could be so important for this game, but I think that the tour identity should accurately reflect our community, which is collaborative and collective. That's my only aim, because people are buying in...literally...to the sales pitch.

and btw, you're not a blowhard for this, I feel like you just want to make sure my criticism doesn't stray from the overall-altruistic nature of the dg community. It's completely fair and I'm happy to discuss.

We actually got a fantastic email on the subject of "inside info" that I'm saving for next week. It's a blessing and a curse. I'll explain why, next week, on The Upshot! (How's that for a teaser??)

 

[Jimb]

Rational, civil, respectful, conversation?!?!?!?

Is this Bizarro DGCR?

 

[kjr63]

2. Why is it beneficial to the dgpt to do the video production in house? Is it just so that they can brand better and stronger? Could a deal have been struck with an outside production company that they buy the rights but the branding regulations are more favourable to the dgpt?

Money obviously? They want to get money from the post production, that they currently don't get?

 

[cheesethin]

Money obviously? They want to get money from the post production, that they currently don't get?

No relevant experience in the field but......
I'm wondering if hiring a production crew for live, post-production, etc is more costly than whatever DGPT gains from advertising etc on the videos? I always assumed that Jomez/CCDG etc put in a huge amount of 'unpaid' extra hours on what they created in order build and grow their own companies. So I'm also assuming that the new production team won't be doing that and are hopefully charging proper rates.

Jomez/CCDG often got sponsorship for producing the coverage, possibly raising a conflict if the event main sponsor was different from the coverage sponsor. Maybe DGPT can get more from the event sponsor now for media coverage.

Anyway, I'm not privvy to the business strategy, surprisingly.

 

[wolfmandragon]

You are grasping at straws. Profit is the model that Jomez uses as well. This is not some hippy love fest, this is business.

 

[cheesethin]

You are grasping at straws.

Not grasping at anything, I'm wondering out loud as to the ins and outs of the business model. You might be attributing a position to me that isn't the case.

Profit is the model that Jomez uses as well.

Of course it is. No one said they don't. I was referencing the extra investment of time and energy a company will put in to grow their OWN brand, so they can achieve FUTURE profit for themselves. And pointing out that a crew for hire won't do that. They will do a professional days work for a professional days fee, but won't go the extra mile without being paid for it. And I was asking the question as to the profitability of that equation for the DGPT. I don't know the answer, I was wondering.

This is not some hippy love fest, this is business.

Who on earth said it was? Once again, I think you might be attributing a position to me that isn't the case.



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[DoWork]

I totally get that. And if that is the driving factor, I am completely inline with any player that goes where they feel they will get the most exposure. And I know right now that the term "Jomez" is getting thrown around to encompass Jomez & CCDG (and somewhat SmashBoxx).

I just find it funny that she (and the FPO) appeared one time on Jomez in 2015, then 1 event in 2017 at the BSF, and then quite a few in 2018. And let me tell you this, if Jomez goes to an event that isn't the DGPT, odds are they are NOT covering FPO. So, for HER and the other FPO it makes sense to continue to attend DGPT events.

But if you take her decision making process and move it over to MPO, that could be a different story for a while. At least until Dodge's channel can begin to catch up to Jomez.

Yes but that assumption is wrong- DGPT and Jomez coverage are a false equivalency. None of the things you said matter other than the acceptance that she has to follow views, regardless of external factors that don't play into the bottom line of exposure and sales.

Sorry for the incoming rant *deep breath*

It doesn't matter if Joe Schmoe covered her from breakfast to bedtime 365 days a year if it doesn't get her any exposure or pay her bills. These athletes have to do what will put ramens on the camp stove and that's mostly merch sales for the majority of the field- Saturation is a term you should understand in this case. More coverage is not necessarily better. More can lead to disinterest if it isn't top notch coverage!

Also, "waiting for Dodge's channel to catch up" is a bull**** paradigm IMO. If their production wasn't already on par they're IDIOTS to think they're going to smash it on the fly and not take a hit. They saw what Jomez was doing and assumed they could do the same and they didn't need them- fully ignoring the false equivalency therein, and the loyalty of the fans who've watched coverage improve and change. It reeks of XFL, and if Dodge keeps himself at the mic during this transition, it will experience similar levels of success. Don't try to reinvent the wheel in a power grab, DO invent new ways to all win together. I've seen "high tides lift all boats" tossed around here but what DGPT is trying to do is pump the high tide out and into their own pool, and that's complete bull****- even more annoying is that someone wants me to believe that bs angle too like I'm 12 and haven't a shred of business acumen.

We all see it, and nobody is impressed with any angle of it. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. This whole back and forth has been like a middle school class election. I know I'm not alone in having given my last **** about DGPT, and please don't confuse that with me wishing ill on anyone at DGPT- conversely I hope they abandon the "island of one" asinine outlook, but hey if they want egg on their face that's their business. Plenty of it on there right now, that's for sure.

 

[DoWork]

Yes but that assumption is wrong- DGPT and Jomez coverage are a false equivalency. None of the things you said matter other than the acceptance that she has to follow views, regardless of external factors that don't play into the bottom line of exposure and sales.

Sorry for the incoming rant *deep breath*

It doesn't matter if Joe Schmoe covered her from breakfast to bedtime 365 days a year if it doesn't get her any exposure or pay her bills. These athletes have to do what will put ramens on the camp stove and that's mostly merch sales for the majority of the field- Saturation is a term you should understand in this case. More coverage is not necessarily better. More can lead to disinterest if it isn't top notch coverage!

Also, "waiting for Dodge's channel to catch up" is a bull**** paradigm IMO. If their production wasn't already on par they're IDIOTS to think they're going to smash it on the fly and not take a hit. They saw what Jomez was doing and assumed they could do the same and they didn't need them- fully ignoring the false equivalency therein, and the loyalty of the fans who've watched coverage improve and change. It reeks of XFL, and if Dodge keeps himself at the mic during this transition, it will experience similar levels of success. Don't try to reinvent the wheel in a power grab, DO invent new ways to all win together. I've seen "high tides lift all boats" tossed around here but what DGPT is trying to do is pump the high tide out and into their own pool, and that's complete bull****- even more annoying is that someone wants me to believe that bs angle too like I'm 12 and haven't a shred of business acumen.

We all see it, and nobody is impressed with any angle of it. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. This whole back and forth has been like a middle school class election. I know I'm not alone in having given my last **** about DGPT, and please don't confuse that with me wishing ill on anyone at DGPT- conversely I hope they abandon the "island of one" asinine outlook, but hey if they want egg on their face that's their business. Plenty of it on there right now, that's for sure.

Aaaaaand now I feel kinda bad because I had to polarize my argument to articulate the point I wanted to make about it. My stance is not as extreme as it may seem from he rant version of the idea, but the points remain. This was sloppy from start to finish, and I am skeptical anything good will come that couldn't have been better working in a cohesive way, but it isn't my toy to play with.

 

[jvphobic]

Aaaaaand now I feel kinda bad because I had to polarize my argument to articulate the point I wanted to make about it. My stance is not as extreme as it may seem from he rant version of the idea, but the points remain. This was sloppy from start to finish, and I am skeptical anything good will come that couldn't have been better working in a cohesive way, but it isn't my toy to play with.

I agree that this was done sloppily. No arguments. I have doubts that the DGPT will be able to accomplish all the post production work that was being done last year. Getting out 2 cards of MPO & 1 of FPO will be a massive undertaking for 1 crew, even with the workflow Dodge has laid out. I expect early failures and trip ups.

My original point (way back when) was that it made no sense for the FPO to follow Jomez to the smaller events because they will not be covering FPO at those. Probably just the NTs & Majors.

But I don't know if the DGPT will take a hit or not. I don't think they believe they will be as good as Jomez out of the gate either. But as I have said from the beginning, 80% of the quality will be good enough for 95% of the people.

 

[TheOtherBill]

This is a great point 80% of the quality will be good enough for 95% of the people.

Has anyone gone back to re-watch any McFly videos? They were hot stuff just a couple years ago and now seem like antiques.

 

[wolfmandragon]

Yes. His filming was top notch, better than Jomez or CCDG, post production, not so much.

Also, filming with SLR may have given better color, but it was lacking in fps.

His refusal to do/allow commentary killed him, not video quality.

 

[brutalbrutus]

80% of the quality will be good enough for 95% of the people.

Well, I guess if there is a bright side to all this, at least you wont be the one taking all the **** from the 5% in the chat this year...