DGPT Sold to Todd Rainwater

[Three Putt]

I personally think it is a reasonable play, the Pro Tours association with Steve has hurt their brand among the new generation of disc golf fans. To me this signals a pretty big shift in the definition of the disc golf consumer and who the pro tour is really being marketed to. First it was the players, then the amateurs, and now they are ready to grow into the mass consumer market?

Steve did a great job of growing his brand to the pros and ams, we will see how the new team and ownership does at continuing to grow the pro tour to the masses.

To me there is no such thing as "the new generation of disc golf fans." It's just the new generation of disc golfers.

The needle has moved in that you can get disc golfers to watch other people play disc golf, that wasn't the case in the not to distant past. Some people from here drove the 5-ish hours up to Peoria to spectate at World's, and that a pretty huge shift from my generation since I wouldn't drive across town to watch somebody else play disc golf. So a lot of progress has been made with the new generation of disc golfers as spectators, and that was a huge hurdle to overcome.

For the future I have no idea if we have to move past that. Can the number of people playing disc golf get large enough that the views from that group are enough to sustain something like DGPT? Or does it have to bleed over into a larger group of non-players? I mean, disc golf has such an easy entry as a player it opens the question to me of why would somebody who likes it enough to watch it NOT play it?

At any rate, the audience evidently needs to expand in some way and Steve was having some problems making that happen. He got it off the ground, though. He will get credit for that.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

I personally think it is a reasonable play, the Pro Tours association with Steve has hurt their brand among the new generation of disc golf fans. To me this signals a pretty big shift in the definition of the disc golf consumer and who the pro tour is really being marketed to. First it was the players, then the amateurs, and now they are ready to grow into the mass consumer market?

Steve did a great job of growing his brand to the pros and ams, we will see how the new team and ownership does at continuing to grow the pro tour to the masses.

Yeah, the guy that actually pushed to make live coverage happen and expand it to the points the people DOING the live coverage were wary could even happen hurt the brand with the people who are watching it ...

 

[VictorB]

I didn't even know you could "own" the tour. I thought someone helped organize and run it but I guess I never knew you could just buy the whole tour. Interesting. What "assets" are included in the tour?

It's more or less an Intellectual Property. The brand has name recognition, history, and the weight of results produced in the past. From what I understood from Spring's interview, most of the actual physical assets weren't transferred.

 

[jvphobic]

I don't know, but I THINK most of the assets were transferred over in the sale. Vehicle, trailer, cameras, streaming equipment, merchandise, course sponsor assets, etc. I think all that went along. I think that Jeff meant that after the season he and Todd would look at a re-branding of the DGPT as they see fit.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

My understanding, and don't make me explain why/how, is that Rainwater was already a major investor. He is the face of a few of the old investors that reinvested into the tour under the mandate that Dodge be ousted.

I personally think it is a reasonable play, the Pro Tours association with Steve has hurt their brand among the new generation of disc golf fans. To me this signals a pretty big shift in the definition of the disc golf consumer and who the pro tour is really being marketed to. First it was the players, then the amateurs, and now they are ready to grow into the mass consumer market?

Steve did a great job of growing his brand to the pros and ams, we will see how the new team and ownership does at continuing to grow the pro tour to the masses.

Steve's (perceived) stubbornness was great for executing proof of concept but the opposite of great as the face/spokesperson of a business. Some of his apologies came across as double-downs and all came with caveats.

I could see where investors would be leery of his stewardship of what ultimately became their commodity, which means it was also no longer his concept alone.

 

[Hampstead]

Hopefully Rainwater and Spring are smart enough to refrain from coaching and stay off the 18th green when the tournament champ is about to putt for the win.

 

[dreadlock86]

What would be sad is if their choice of venues is still tied to cell phone signal. Unless the donor is dropping big money into satellite trucks, hard wire, equipment and bandwidth (or there is some sort of different cell technology available) live coverage will continue to be bleh. IMO the biggest conceptual mistake by DGPT to this point has been the marriage to live coverage above all else.

thank you so much for saying this. even if i had 4 hours in the middle of the day to watch a live broadcast, i would never do so with the dog$hit coverage we've seen so far. live is better for the drama and avoiding spoilers but it's not worth the horrendous signal quality, camera work, commentating, and filler time.

i look forward to the day i can enjoy live DG coverage but i think that day is far from now.

 

[DanJon]

You've got to spend money to make money too though so yes and no haha

Generally speaking, you spend other people's money to make yourself money.

 

[DoWork]

Generally speaking, you spend other people's money to make yourself money.

Lol spoken like a true manager!

 

[SD86]

Hopefully Rainwater and Spring are smart enough to refrain from coaching and stay off the 18th green when the tournament champ is about to putt for the win.

That is twice now that I am forced to 'Nice' one of your posts for sheer accuracy.

What is the world coming to... opcorn:

 

[jvphobic]

FWIW. The last time I spoke with Steve about numbers last year, he told me that the live coverage more or less was close to paying for itself with the ad revenue that it brought in from sponsors. This year things were changed up after the media decisions of the offseason, so I don't know where it stood after that.

 

[mmblink86]

thank you so much for saying this. even if i had 4 hours in the middle of the day to watch a live broadcast, i would never do so with the dog$hit coverage we've seen so far. live is better for the drama and avoiding spoilers but it's not worth the horrendous signal quality, camera work, commentating, and filler time.

i look forward to the day i can enjoy live DG coverage but i think that day is far from now.

yes there are things that need improvement. run time is one, especially since there is only coverage of 1, 2 cards max.

however, this year's live coverage at Worlds was great. definitely the best live coverage i have seen.

better live is within reach with continued evolution of production/logistics and technology.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

yes there are things that need improvement. run time is one, especially since there is only coverage of 1, 2 cards max.

however, this year's live coverage at Worlds was great. definitely the best live coverage i have seen.

better live is within reach with continued evolution of production/logistics and technology.

And it won't come out of no where and be good. It takes time and development and we are seeing that happen in front of us. I seriously don't understand criticizing the push by Steve for trying to get things like live coverage up to his vision instead of a bit of praise and to think I wonder how long until we get live coverage? Things need a starting point and time. ****ting on the guy that pushes to get stuff rolling and developed because the initial quality isn't up to the level of something like a major broadcast sports network is silly.

 

[jvphobic]

And it won't come out of no where and be good. It takes time and development and we are seeing that happen in front of us. I seriously don't understand criticizing the push by Steve for trying to get things like live coverage up to his vision instead of a bit of praise and to think I wonder how long until we get live coverage? Things need a starting point and time. ****ting on the guy that pushes to get stuff rolling and developed because the initial quality isn't up to the level of something like a major broadcast sports network is silly.

I personally have mostly stopped trying to defend the live product. Some people will never be happy with it. Some think it should just magically be a multimillion dollar production. I am a member of a few live streaming groups for things like sports and corporate events. And some of those people are actually impressed by the production quality that we can attain on the limited budget. Golf is literally one of the hardest sports to cover because the field is so large. And honestly their opinions mean more to me than random internet dudes these days.

For some the length of time will always be an issue. For some the graphics will always be an issue. For some the commentators will always be an issue. You either enjoy live disc golf and the drama or you don't. We will continue to plug away and improve the product year after year as we have done for the past 5 years.

 

[biscoe]

I personally have mostly stopped trying to defend the live product. Some people will never be happy with it. Some think it should just magically be a multimillion dollar production. I am a member of a few live streaming groups for things like sports and corporate events. And some of those people are actually impressed by the production quality that we can attain on the limited budget. Golf is literally one of the hardest sports to cover because the field is so large. And honestly their opinions mean more to me than random internet dudes these days.

Other than the first couple DGPT events this year I am consistently impressed with what you guys manage to get out of the existing technology budget you have. I just feel that until there is another tech leap made it is going to remain something for hardcore disc golf nerds and has little or no chance of attracting those outside our little world. (and crap like the first couple DGPT events of this year is a barrier rather than a help to anything)

 

[jvphobic]

Other than the first couple DGPT events this year I am consistently impressed with what you guys manage to get out of the existing technology budget you have. I just feel that until there is another tech leap made it is going to remain something for hardcore disc golf nerds and has little or no chance of attracting those outside our little world. (and crap like the first couple DGPT events of this year is a barrier rather than a help to anything)

Honestly, it isn't really a tech barrier at this point. It is more a manpower/financial barrier I feel. We can put static cameras at locations, but then they kinda have to be short holes because no one is there to man the camera (island holes usually).

And if we want to start editing in other cards on the fly, you need an entire additional crew per card. Because you need people to man the cameras, someone to video switch that card, someone to record the highlight shots and to feed those sliced shots into the primary feed... and do it all in coordination. So you immediately double your manpower for each card you want to film that way. We can handle 2 cards with PIP options pretty well, but beyond that, it is tough.

So, for me personally I would like to see the broadcast improve in 2 aspects. Graphics quality & picture quality. Both will require a little bit of cash. To improve the graphics we need to up our bitrate we transmit. And that is basically doubling the cost of our data to notice a significant improvement. And the graphics is working with UDisc and a good graphics designer to work some things out. And I am already headed down that path.

 

[gogo]

Keep up the good work at smashboxx.tv. I have always enjoyed the live coverage and will continue to support your work. Hopefully there will be a long and happy collaboration with the DGPT. Now to get USDGC on board with live coverage for the whole course.

 

[colink]

So, for me personally I would like to see the broadcast improve in 2 aspects. Graphics quality & picture quality. Both will require a little bit of cash. To improve the graphics we need to up our bitrate we transmit. And that is basically doubling the cost of our data to notice a significant improvement. And the graphics is working with UDisc and a good graphics designer to work some things out. And I am already headed down that path.

What does it take to make sure live works across any course, instead of having gaps in coverage due to limited signal? Is that a feasible thing?

 

[jvphobic]

What does it take to make sure live works across any course, instead of having gaps in coverage due to limited signal? Is that a feasible thing?

I've put a lot of thought into this. You need one of 2 things.
1. Wiring camera drops to different parts of the course. The problem with this is running thousands of feet of cable to locations. Not only is it expensive, but getting that cable to the course.

2. Wireless transmitters. This is difficult because most reasonable priced ones require a line of site. Which does no one any good at most of our best wooded courses. Wireless doesn't travel thru trees very well. So you would need to elevate the transmitter and receiver above the treeline. To do all of this at a public park would require a few additional days of work, then you probably need to have security to protect your equipment from theft during the day and overnight. And possibly permits to erect all this stuff.

So right now, for all intensive purposes cellular is our most reasonable option. The expansive nature of our sport is also what is holding us back.

 

[SD86]

So, for me personally I would like to see the broadcast improve in 2 aspects. Graphics quality & picture quality. Both will require a little bit of cash. To improve the graphics we need to up our bitrate we transmit. And that is basically doubling the cost of our data to notice a significant improvement. And the graphics is working with UDisc and a good graphics designer to work some things out. And I am already headed down that path.

Agree, and this is where I believe this new ownership/management team can help. There have been many posts on these boards that some things are 'cost prohibitive', and I get that. I don't know the numbers, but Jomez, CCDG, Smashboxx, et. al. have to have cost limits. This new team might can get some things 'over the hump'. And that will lead to more incoming revenue.

One thing I didn't see discussed in this thread, though I may have missed it, and I've seen it in other threads: some comments that the disc makers (Discraft, Innova, et. al.) are getting tired of sponsoring literally everything. Related to my first paragraph, I understand that sometimes these companies are paying for some of the media folks to get to a site to film it, etc. This new team might can help ease the cost burdens of those manufacturing sponsors, who then can advertise more on the media broadcasts/webcasts, bringing in more revenue. Might be six of one, half dozen of the other, but it'll all come out in the wash.