Do we need a disc golf NATO?

[Parked Soc of DG]

In the last two months, local news outlets have reported that four disc golf courses may soon be closed, one fully funded course development project has been canceled, and one large disc golf community may see substantial new parking fees on top of the pay-to-play fees that already exist.

Some of these cases have been discussed on other threads. I spent some time researching these cases for an article in Parked (if interested, see https://parkeddiscgolf.org/2018/02/22/six-ways-to-kill-a-disc-golf-course-and-one-way-to-stop-it/).

But you don't need to read the article to know that changes in local public policy can have negative influences on the disc golf community.

My question is, what can disc golfers do to support each other when a course goes on the chopping block? What do people think about a no-cost, free association of disc golf clubs?

Perhaps a "Disc Golf Preservation Society"? Such a group could be set up with the simple function of mutual support. When the course of a member-club is threatened, the other clubs do their best to help the threatened club research the problem, spread information, and work toward a favorable resolution. An attack on one is an attack on all?

Any thoughts?

 

[elmexdela]

i think this is the funniest thread posted in a long time

 

[Steve West]

Skateboard park builders would be a good example to emulate.

 

[ru4por]

Courses get pulled all the time for a host of reasons. Many of the times the reasons are valid. Safety, poor course design...threatening neighboring properties, playgrounds, picnic areas..... Litter, boorish and inappropriate behavior by golfers, erosion or tree damage, vandalism, lack of use. Throw in any opportunity for a municipality to replace a course with an enterprise that make far more money or is in much greater need in the community.
I think such a resource as suggested above would be better used to educate and ensure that the right courses are built in the right places with the right maintenance and fee structures are in place. Pay to play and private courses seem to be the path, IMO.

 

[DavidSauls]

One of the selling points of disc golf is that it's very cheap for parks to install, compared to everything else they do. Other than the land, of course.

But that cuts two ways. When something else comes along, they don't have a lot of money invested in the course, so it's easy to scrap it.

 

[scarpfish]

No, because there's no such thing as a "no cost, free association" of anything, and the closest thing resembling such already exists on social media and online petition sites.

The facts are, that for every course we lose, or doesn't go in, that several others are installed without incident. We win way more battles than we lose.

 

[DavidSauls]

The facts are, that for every course we lose, or doesn't go in, that several others are installed without incident. We win way more battles than we lose.

Losing battles is still no fun. Just as most car trips don't involve a wreck; if your car trip does, it's a bad day, and we'd like to minimize them.

But I agree, and was going to say something similar: How many courses are we losing? 1% per year? 0.1%? We're using lots of land, usually lots of valuable land, that belongs to someone else, and inevitably some of it is going to get re-purposed. We should do what we can to minimize the losses---behave well, be good caretakers, demonstrate whatever benefits we provide locally (charities, tourism, etc.)---and hope for the best.

 

[DavidSauls]

Pay to play and private courses seem to be the path, IMO.

Private courses are much more tenuous than public courses.

I've lamented the loss of far more private courses which I loved, than public ones.

 

[biscoe]

Skateboard park builders would be a good example to emulate.

If you are looking for a group continually guilty of selling a "pig in a poke" to parks departments it is those guys. I have yet to meet a parks official in a municipality with a public skate park who does not regret its installation.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Perhaps a "Disc Golf Preservation Society"? Such a group could be set up with the simple function of mutual support. When the course of a member-club is threatened, the other clubs do their best to help the threatened club research the problem, spread information, and work toward a favorable resolution. An attack on one is an attack on all?

Any thoughts?

You need to better define that part - in practical real-world terms. Is this just going to be a message board somewhere on the inter-webs so dg designers and players can commiserate together? Is this going to be a formal 501c3 org with a governing hierarchy?

Plus, we need to be careful how we take on these park departments and the like. Taking a "an attack on one is an attack on all" approach is not going to win any favors with these public servants. It's been my experience that parks and rec places usually put in a dg course as a favor and if one is threatened to get yanked taking a confrontational attitude will do nothing for this cause. Plus, these park and rec guys talk to other park and rec guys means if the local dg scene gets a reputation as just being a bunch of a-holes you can kiss ever seeing a new course goodbye for a long time.

Your idea is fine but really nebulous and requires a lot of refinement before we can have a practical conversation.

Also, there needs to be consideration when a course is pulled maybe we need to look at why. And if there is good reason for it being pulled offer support to the local park and rec folks to tell them that we as a dg community agree and maybe offer positive solutions. That could go a long way to foster good relations.

Sorry for the long ramble...

 

[1978]

In the last two months, local news outlets have reported that four disc golf courses may soon be closed, one fully funded course development project has been canceled, and one large disc golf community may see substantial new parking fees on top of the pay-to-play fees that already exist.

Some of these cases have been discussed on other threads. I spent some time researching these cases for an article in Parked (if interested, see https://parkeddiscgolf.org/2018/02/22/six-ways-to-kill-a-disc-golf-course-and-one-way-to-stop-it/).

But you don't need to read the article to know that changes in local public policy can have negative influences on the disc golf community.

My question is, what can disc golfers do to support each other when a course goes on the chopping block? What do people think about a no-cost, free association of disc golf clubs?

Perhaps a "Disc Golf Preservation Society"? Such a group could be set up with the simple function of mutual support. When the course of a member-club is threatened, the other clubs do their best to help the threatened club research the problem, spread information, and work toward a favorable resolution. An attack on one is an attack on all?

Any thoughts?

Its pretty simple.

1. Make sure that the course is designed by a qualified well versed designer. This helps ensure a safe well designed course, reduces safety concerns and neighbor impact.

2. Police yourselves. You may or may not agree with it but, in general, average community members do not like alcohol drinking or ANY kind of smoking in their back yard or park. You can disagree with those people...and then lose your course. In the end a little self control can save your local course

3. Do everything possible through design or course maintenance to mitigate the ugly effects of disc golf. Protect trees, throw from areas where easily damaged trees will not interfere with every drive. Regularly research ways to spread mulch over areas of erosion or exposed roots. Create erosion diversions to maintain topsoil.

4. Keep the course looking nice. Pick up trash, maintain fairways, remove graffiti or damage to infrastructure.

5. If it is a pay to play. Enforce dress code as if it was a true golf course.

 

[da Crippler]

Stop trying to work with local government "officials". They will always have the power to close a course for any reason they choose. You won't have to deal with incompetent boobs, NIMBYs, entitled snowflakes, hippie hating councilmen, parks department tyrants and bullies, vandalism, littering etc. Private p2p courses keep the riff raff out.

 

[osborne]

I think this could be a great idea actually. It could include a repository of information that was already researched on the national level as well as guidelines on what research needs to be done on local levels for things that get courses pulled (erosion, safety, behavior etc.). The database of information would prevent people from having to do research that was already done for another location.

I do agree with previous posts that there are times when courses are pulled for valid reasons and we as dgers should offer to work with park board. Whether we like it or not most times dg is a small % of what happens in most parks and that means that our sport does not have a lot of leverage when it comes to fighting this. The best we can do is offer our research and provide positive solutions that will solve the issues without the entire course getting pulled.

On a side note, Dress code for P2P??? No, just no.

 

[d11rok]

If a dgc at a public park is in jeopardy, as aforementioned it may have something to do with financials. If there is indeed a large enough population of good people using the course, it may behoove the group to have a fundraiser tournament with funds going to the parks department.

NB: I am not associated with any parks department. Just a casual observer of society:s workings

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

If a dgc at a public park is in jeopardy, as aforementioned it may have something to do with financials. If there is indeed a large enough population of good people using the course, it may behoove the group to have a fundraiser tournament with funds going to the parks department.

NB: I am not associated with any parks department. Just a casual observer of society:s workings

Without the value judgment, I sort of agree. What disc golf needs is more people playing it - more people who have money to spend on the sport, more people who pay for what they want instead of trying to make it themselves, more people who don't leave energy drink cans all over the courses, more people who don't do illegal things while playing, more people who don't scare off parents, more people who don't have to carpool to tournaments because the spent their gas money on weed. We need more voters and their children playing disc golf.

The example to use isn't golf courses. The example to use is the organizations and activities that are causing park departments to consider closing disc golf courses. In my area, it is baseball, football, soccer and other youth sports. Local government has no problem finding a place to put 14 soccer fields because parents demand it. Get those same parents and kids playing disc golf, and local government will have no problem spending a tiny fraction of the money on disc golf courses. Without that kind of popularity, courses will be moved or closed to make way for more popular/trendy activities no matter how many out-of-town disc golfers you get to sign an online petition.

 

[ru4por]

The struggles of quality P2P courses is a shining example of why some courses struggle. Until a model of financial self sufficiency is seen by municipalities,, courses will continue to be at risk.

In this area, we have far more success putting courses into undesirable areas of parks. Wet, wooded lowlands subject to flooding and mostly unusable for most other activities. Convincing a park system to put a course where soccer fields, parking lots, pavilions, picnic areas and playgrounds would work is asking for issues down the road. A good, well run park system should have a master plan to foresee such issues, but we all know that not all park systems are well run. .

I would agree that aggressive tactics would only serve to alienate the powers that be. Professional, positive, intellectual discourse will always be better received in public forums. Sadly, the age of social media has seen these traits diminish.

 

[DiscJunkie]

My experience in dealing with our local parks is limited, but it was pleasant and mutually beneficial.
I started off by asking "what can we, the DG Community do for the Parks Dept?"
She started to faint, but when she recovered it became obvious that she had NEVER heard that question from anyone involved in the DG Community. As a group, we come over as a bunch of self-entitled narcissists.
Anyways, her answer was "heads in beds". She went on to say that the reason she had built SO MANY soccer fields and baseball and softball fields was tournaments. These soccer and baseball and softball tourneys bring in parents and players from all over the state and they stay in hotels/motels and they eat out and buy snacks and gas and make money for the city/county.
Please understand, this is a broad generalization:
If your park makes money for the county, they have every reason to keep it around.
If it doesn't...
Your parks dept probably couldn't care less about how many locals crowd up the park. Or how many travelling pros come to town for your big tourney, if they sleep on someone's couch or spare bed.

Long post to say:
1. Nothing works every time, everywhere, YRMV.
2. Talk to your parks dept. and ask the same question (What can I do for you?), you'll likely get the same answer (heads in beds).
3. Go about proving your course is a money generator for the city/county.
4. Not a magic cure, YRMV.

 

[Vintage Folfer]

3. Go about proving your course is a money generator for the city/county.

One thing I've been doing whenever I use a store or business near a course I play is to tell them why I'm there: because of the DG course. This way they know the course is bringing in cash to them and their community.