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End of Jump Putting as we know it
- Thread starter mudslinger
- Start date
the_pwnerator
Eagle Member
OK..here's where I'm at. You can't pass your lie. At all.
To those saying you absolutely need to follow through, look at bowling. There's the fault line that they still manage not to pass, even with a run up. If youre too worried about messing up your joints that way then just stand and deliver, that's what I do.
To those saying you absolutely need to follow through, look at bowling. There's the fault line that they still manage not to pass, even with a run up. If youre too worried about messing up your joints that way then just stand and deliver, that's what I do.
How about allowing jump putts, along with putt jumps, as long as when you land you are behind your marker and within the required 13cm or whatever it is? This way you can release the disc while in the air but you will never be able to go past your marker.
How dare you unleash Louis CK on me! How DARE you!
I suppose we could add in a meter of relief, similar to the club length relief they get in bolf.
General Scales
Double Eagle Member
Bowlers also slide to that foul line. They transfer their energy through that slide. Something disc golfers cannot do. Plus what disc golfer wants to be this guy?
blur
Par Member
^^ prob gets more chicks then most disc golfers..
esdubya
Double Eagle Member
So the primary issue here is not a legal follow through, but the illegal "jump-then-putt" where high speed cameras have found RC members throwing illegal shots when they were messing about in a field? This is the primary issue that is concerning the PDGA RC??
I'm sorry, but changing the circle to 50m or 100m or something bigger has to be the dumbest most brute-force non-elegant solution possible. Main issue will be widespread player confusion and complaining, many people choosing not to follow new rule (myself included). Those that do will now have to walk off a much longer shot, further slowing down play (and how accurate is the 'walk-off' anyways?). This is fixing a drip leak and creating a huge hole in the other side. NOT smart. For the sake of our sport I really hope the RC can see that. This is not a problem, go fix something else!
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Here are parts of posts from a PDGA thread on this topic that gels some of the ideas posted here. Neil Webber summarized in rules lingo my proposal to allow throws including a one step follow thru from behind the lie:
B. When the disc is released, a player must:
1. Make contact with a stance zone defined by a 30x30cm square (or variant, or existing lie) directly behind the marker disc with;
a) at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface or,
b) the next subsequent supporting point contact with the playing surface; and,
2. Have no supporting point contact with the marker disc or any object (including the playing surface) closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc; and,
3. Have all supporting points in-bounds.
C. Supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc after the disc has been released is not permitted and is considered a stance violation. The player must demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the hole.
My response for additional discussion and clarification:
Yes. In thinking further about this whole issue, ball golf has the advantage that everyone can see that the ball is played where it lies all the way from the start of a player's process until the ball is struck. In disc golf we don't play it where it lies. We must place a supporting point where the throw lands at the time of release which can occur at any point between the start and end of our complete throwing process depending whether we run up, just stand and/or follow-thru (when outside 10m).
Because we've chosen to have the critical moment for observing a legal stance mostly in the middle of the throwing process, we've made it more difficult to both execute and observe a legal stance for many throws due to the speed of the actions. Two alternative options would be to make the legal stance call at the beginning of a throw or end of a throw. Of course, making the call at the beginning would be foolish since the player could then proceed past the lie before throwing, doing improper actions after the stance call was good.
Making the legal stance call at the end of all throwing motions makes more sense because both the player and the group can see if it was done legally. We already do this now with putting inside the 10m circle. Of course, it's necessary to continue requiring the player to release the throw while supporting points are behind the mark which can easily be observed.
So rather than moving the putting circle outward and maintaining the more restricted putting motions where there's no follow-thru and a supporting point has to be on the ground at release, let's move the circle way back by eliminating it completely and at the same time free up the type of throws allowed as long as they're made behind the mark. Seems like that provides freedom to legally make more types of throws from near and behind their lie and makes sure the player executes them so their final motion is connected to their official lie so player and group can confirm it.
B. When the disc is released, a player must:
1. Make contact with a stance zone defined by a 30x30cm square (or variant, or existing lie) directly behind the marker disc with;
a) at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface or,
b) the next subsequent supporting point contact with the playing surface; and,
2. Have no supporting point contact with the marker disc or any object (including the playing surface) closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc; and,
3. Have all supporting points in-bounds.
C. Supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc after the disc has been released is not permitted and is considered a stance violation. The player must demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the hole.
My response for additional discussion and clarification:
Yes. In thinking further about this whole issue, ball golf has the advantage that everyone can see that the ball is played where it lies all the way from the start of a player's process until the ball is struck. In disc golf we don't play it where it lies. We must place a supporting point where the throw lands at the time of release which can occur at any point between the start and end of our complete throwing process depending whether we run up, just stand and/or follow-thru (when outside 10m).
Because we've chosen to have the critical moment for observing a legal stance mostly in the middle of the throwing process, we've made it more difficult to both execute and observe a legal stance for many throws due to the speed of the actions. Two alternative options would be to make the legal stance call at the beginning of a throw or end of a throw. Of course, making the call at the beginning would be foolish since the player could then proceed past the lie before throwing, doing improper actions after the stance call was good.
Making the legal stance call at the end of all throwing motions makes more sense because both the player and the group can see if it was done legally. We already do this now with putting inside the 10m circle. Of course, it's necessary to continue requiring the player to release the throw while supporting points are behind the mark which can easily be observed.
So rather than moving the putting circle outward and maintaining the more restricted putting motions where there's no follow-thru and a supporting point has to be on the ground at release, let's move the circle way back by eliminating it completely and at the same time free up the type of throws allowed as long as they're made behind the mark. Seems like that provides freedom to legally make more types of throws from near and behind their lie and makes sure the player executes them so their final motion is connected to their official lie so player and group can confirm it.
sure would speed up the pace of play. after the second shot of the round, the player is stymied - GAME OVER.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Similar (but admittedly clumsier) wording as putts currently. Basically must demonstrate balance before advancing, and of course, that allows time for the player and group to see if the player's supporting point end up on the stance area.
Uh, to my taste, that makes both the rulebook and the game worse than the status quo. All that to cure the problem of fraction-of-a-second footfaults?
I sure hope the rules committee concludes that the flaws in the current rule are tolerable, and leaves it alone.
I sure hope the rules committee concludes that the flaws in the current rule are tolerable, and leaves it alone.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
The foot fault issue provides the opportunity to expand the throwing options in the game, remove the 10m putting circle and rule, and make it easier for throwers and the group to confirm legal stance. Those are pretty big benefits to just blow off. There typically won't be another major rulebook update for 2-3 years so there's no short term concern about changes.
Or maybe cuts back on follow-throughs and thus the most athletic full-force throws, expands the vague "demonstrate balance" rule all over the fairway, and exchanges the easily-discernible "line of play" for a 30x30cm imaginary box that makes it harder to confirm the legal stance.
Yeah, I know it's not a pending issue and perhaps it'll never be more than discussion board chat. I certainly hope not.
David, unlike the 2m debate you and I are in total agreement on this one.
WAAAHHH!!! Why can't I play the game the way I want?!
Seriously, 30 pages on this?
Christ on a crutch, its a game---STFU already.
Seriously, 30 pages on this?
Christ on a crutch, its a game---STFU already.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Here's the deal, the RC will not stop until the issue is solved. The various options proposed and being considered will shrink rather than expand the game. Your response to my proposal simply brings up changes in what will need to be monitored but not reasons the option isn't viable. BTW, the original stance area in the rules was the circular area the size of the thrown disc not the current line of play so the 30x30 area would be a small nod to the original rule.
Not "simply". It looks to me like it brings up more things that are harder to monitor than the simple thing which is being "fixed". Just because the option's viable doesn't mean it's an improvement.
I've yet to see a proposal for fixing the problem of jump-putts that isn't worse than the problem. Come to think of it, I haven't seen the problem of jump-putts described in a way that compels fixing.
With any luck, that quest will last longer than my old body does.
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