Flatpad teepads

[RistoS]

I did notice that every single one of the 4 players teeing off, started with their heels hanging off the back of the teepad. So on a 344 foot hole, the players needed every single bit of the Flatpad, plus a little more. There would definitely be players that would probably attempt to step up onto the pad on their run-up if the hole required a bomb.

Lauri Lehtinen still managed 5 steps within the tee pad, and no one stepped off in the follow through (planted on the green turf). Four meters (13 feet) is enough for virtually all pros on a hole like this; you can't really design teepads with anomalies like James Conrad in mind. Different solutions may be better for holes where you can throw big though.

 

[dmoore1998]

Lauri Lehtinen still managed 5 steps within the tee pad, and no one stepped off in the follow through (planted on the green turf). Four meters (13 feet) is enough for virtually all pros on a hole like this; you can't really design teepads with anomalies like James Conrad in mind. Different solutions may be better for holes where you can throw big though.

It's also worth considering that no matter how long you make a teepad...people will just start at the very back of it because they can. To me, it doesn't seem like a big deal that everyone started at the very back edge...it's kind of what I'd expect from most people regardless of the size.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

Lauri Lehtinen still managed 5 steps within the tee pad, and no one stepped off in the follow through (planted on the green turf). Four meters (13 feet) is enough for virtually all pros on a hole like this; you can't really design teepads with anomalies like James Conrad in mind. Different solutions may be better for holes where you can throw big though.

I agree with you that 4 meters should be enough "on a hole like this". Do you not think that players would want/require more room if the hole was another 100 feet?

As annoyed as I am by the gigantic run-ups, Conrad is not the only player doing it. Gannon Buhr and some others requires as much or more run-up. Not to mention with Conrad being the current World Champion, more and more players will emulate him.

 

[RistoS]

I agree with you that 4 meters should be enough "on a hole like this". Do you not think that players would want/require more room if the hole was another 100 feet?

440 feet is still not a problem from a teepad of that size. Go beyond 500 feet of power and it's maybe a different story.

Not to mention with Conrad being the current World Champion, more and more players will emulate him.

He's made it work for himself but you obviously shouldn't emulate it, and thank god I haven't seen anyone. The Finnish disc golf instruction system and culture basically guarantees that won't happen here.

 

[Flatpad]

Thanks for all the comments and all the help. We really appreciate this open and honest discussion, even if we don't always agree on everything.

The platforms delivered to the Tyyni tournament are 5 meters long, of which the throwing area is 4.5 meters. We can make longer ones if necessary without restrictions, because the product is modular.

You will probably get a better idea of ​​these products from the videos, so I encourage you to watch them. Three rounds are played in the tournament, so platforms will come up many more times.

 

[Flatpad]

We updated the chart based on the feedback received here. The goal is of course to give a fair and realistic picture, but also to highlight the advantages of our product.

 

[dmoore1998]

We updated the chart based on the feedback received here. The goal is of course to give a fair and realistic picture, but also to highlight the advantages of our product.

Just my 2 cents, but I'd just scrap the chart altogether. It's not helpful in making any kind of consumer decision really. Nobody wants to pay 10x the cost for "frost protection". It's just irrelevant. Same for ads, nobody is making up that much money for a little ad space when everyone already has a solution for advertising. Same goes for things like "ease of installation"...again, nobody is having such a hard time with concrete teepads that they're going to buy yours instead.


Your product is portable, easily adjustable on uneven ground to be flat, and can be placed without disturbing the ground underneath. That's it, that's the entire pitch. That's all you need.

You're inviting disagreement (unnecessarily) when you have things like safety comparisons. Your product almost definitely isn't safer than most other options, because most other options aren't elevated the majority of the time. That doesn't make your product UNsafe, but I wouldn't really be quick to highlight safety as a deciding factor when yours probably isn't a great option in that realm.

All the chart does is place you into direct competition in a consumer's mind with other options that are frankly better if the consumer can use those options. Your product is for when those other options aren't really available for some reason.

Don't muddy the waters of what you're trying to be in a consumer's mind. You're not competition with a concrete pad or a wooden box with a gravel bed...those things simply cannot do what you do in the specific situation where you're likely to be purchased...because they aren't easily movable.

Your chart is like building a top-of-the-line race car and then trying to compare it to a daily commuter car. Nobody who needs a daily commuter is buying your race car, and the chart simply muddies the waters for people who need a race car about what your product is and why you're comparing it to commuter cars. They are simply 2 different markets. Your product is portable and probably temporary teepads...you're making your product less attractive by comparing it to competition of permanent teepads that you don't need to compare it to.

 

[jakebake91]

I'd agree with that post^^

Youre trying to win in categories that you don't actually have an advantage in. Highlight your strengths. That chart still isn't fooling anyone.

Also. To the OP: Do some research on the term "cost effective". I don't think you understand what it means.

 

[txmxer]

Dmoore swings, it's deep left, it's going, going….GONE! Homerun.

It is what it is. Sell that. It has some solid points and I hope you find adequate market to keep making these and improving.

 

[Flatpad]

Just my 2 cents, but I'd just scrap the chart altogether. It's not helpful in making any kind of consumer decision really. Nobody wants to pay 10x the cost for "frost protection". It's just irrelevant. Same for ads, nobody is making up that much money for a little ad space when everyone already has a solution for advertising. Same goes for things like "ease of installation"...again, nobody is having such a hard time with concrete teepads that they're going to buy yours instead.


Your product is portable, easily adjustable on uneven ground to be flat, and can be placed without disturbing the ground underneath. That's it, that's the entire pitch. That's all you need.

You're inviting disagreement (unnecessarily) when you have things like safety comparisons. Your product almost definitely isn't safer than most other options, because most other options aren't elevated the majority of the time. That doesn't make your product UNsafe, but I wouldn't really be quick to highlight safety as a deciding factor when yours probably isn't a great option in that realm.

All the chart does is place you into direct competition in a consumer's mind with other options that are frankly better if the consumer can use those options. Your product is for when those other options aren't really available for some reason.

Don't muddy the waters of what you're trying to be in a consumer's mind. You're not competition with a concrete pad or a wooden box with a gravel bed...those things simply cannot do what you do in the specific situation where you're likely to be purchased...because they aren't easily movable.

Your chart is like building a top-of-the-line race car and then trying to compare it to a daily commuter car. Nobody who needs a daily commuter is buying your race car, and the chart simply muddies the waters for people who need a race car about what your product is and why you're comparing it to commuter cars. They are simply 2 different markets. Your product is portable and probably temporary teepads...you're making your product less attractive by comparing it to competition of permanent teepads that you don't need to compare it to.

Thanks for the comments. Again, I'll try to answer as best I can.

1. Frost protection.
I know it may sound crazy to advertise such a feature. I would also believe that for many it sounds like an impossible idea that this would be necessary. So what is it about? Frost protection is necessary when building in such climatic conditions that the temperature drops to negative degrees Celcius for a longer period of time and the ground starts to freeze. Freezing of the ground causes changes in the shape of the ground and thus affects all structures on top. If, for example, a concrete base is built on top, then without protection it will start to bulge and crack.
Our product is not built solidly into the ground, so it does not suffer the same damage from frost. Changes caused by frost can be compensated for by adjusting the legs. We don't expect anyone to pay ten times more to get this feature, but in our case it's built into the product. So it can be said that our solution has secured the investment.

You can read more about frost here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frost_heaving

2. Safety
The terms responsibility and liability should also be used here. Comprehensive safety is made up of many parts. Product safety is only one part of the whole. There are many different factors on top of it that affect when talking about a safe product.

Let's think about this through an example.

It is said that someone has built a teapad out of wood in a park owned and operated by the city. Who is responsible if something happens? Who is responsible for service and maintenance? Who approved this structure in the first place?
No one wants accidents to happen, but they do. It is possible to find yourself in a situation where an individual decides to pursue responsibility and find out who built the structure that caused the accident.
I don't have the answers to give in those cases when the teepads are built as a joint work of individuals or groups.

We design the products based on the standards required by the law, and thus we are sure that safety has been thought comprehensively. The instructions supplied with the product are also part of safety. Installation instructions, operating instructions, inspection and maintenance instructions. Our customers therefore buy a safe product that meets the requirements and thus their responsibility and damage liability is covered.

The main buyer group for us is municipalities, cities and owners of disc golf parks. Not so much private consumers, although they too can buy our products with confidence.
If I myself were working in a city where private people have built structures in the parks for free use, I would be worried about how they meet the safety requirements.

Let's admit that our marketing is certainly not the best possible right now. However, I believe that we are developing in the right direction, and for that I also have a big thank you to all of you on this forum for participating in the discussion.
We have also noticed elsewhere that we very often find ourselves in situations where we have to train people to see these things more broadly, taking into account the things mentioned above.

 

[DavidSauls]

The platforms delivered to the Tyyni tournament are 5 meters long, of which the throwing area is 4.5 meters. We can make longer ones if necessary without restrictions, because the product is modular.

That's pretty big, and tees that size would alleviate some of the safety concerns.

Our course has 2 platform tees. The platforms are 8' x 16', the teeing area 5' x 12'. So we have 4' runoff, and some safety on either side.

5 meters is approximately the same length; 4.5 meters is a longer throwing area than any I've ever used. I'd choose 4 meters, myself, with a meter runoff, and either widen the platform or narrow the throwing area to give some margins.

(With apologies for mixing measurement systems)

 

[Flatpad]

Some links for videos in Tyyni Open 2022 tournament

Tyyni Open 2022 round 1 #14
Tyyni Open 2022 round 1 #18
Tyyni Open 2022 round 2 #14
Tyyni Open 2022 round 2 #18

 

[Flatpad]

Here is one picture to demonstrate the advertising space idea. The player is on top of the platform and the edge of the platform is a really visible place to place ads. As the number of audiences and video streaming increases, the importance of placing advertisements will be emphasized. This ad placement works when viewed on-site and also via stream.

 

[DeanMoriarty]

Cement teepads > your teepads..

Sorry boss.

 

[ru4por]

Cement teepads > your teepads..

Sorry boss.

They're not really trying to market these as a better alternative to cement.

 

[davetherocketguy]

They're not really trying to market these as a better alternative to cement.

CONCRETE

Sorry. Dumb pet-peeve of mine. CEMENT is a ingredient. CONCRETE is the end product.

 

[jakebake91]

Here is one picture to demonstrate the advertising space idea. The player is on top of the platform and the edge of the platform is a really visible place to place ads. As the number of audiences and video streaming increases, the importance of placing advertisements will be emphasized. This ad placement works when viewed on-site and also via stream.

How would this be better than a bigger, much easier to read from afar, sign of some kind? Plenty of space there to stick one in the ground.

Again. You're stretching for a "pro" here.

 

[Flatpad]

How would this be better than a bigger, much easier to read from afar, sign of some kind? Plenty of space there to stick one in the ground.

Again. You're stretching for a "pro" here.

Have we now reached a point where everything I try to bring up as a positive side ends up being dismissed unilaterally.

In my opinion, the advertising space integrated into the teepad is in a very visible place without disturbing the players. If you put signs next to and in front of the tea pad, wouldn't they be quite a distraction?

With the same logic as you present, it could be argued that the players can hold bigger signs in their hands, that there is no need to put sponsor logos on the shirt.

 

[jakebake91]

Have we now reached a point where everything I try to bring up as a positive side ends up being dismissed unilaterally.

In my opinion, the advertising space integrated into the teepad is in a very visible place without disturbing the players. If you put signs next to and in front of the tea pad, wouldn't they be quite a distraction?

With the same logic as you present, it could be argued that the players can hold bigger signs in their hands, that there is no need to put sponsor logos on the shirt.

How big is that space? Doesn't seem very tall. You're not seeing it from a distance. And very rarely are you going to be seeing that portion of the teepad on coverage, either.

I'm not trying to be purposely pessimistic. I'm simply pointing out that all these perceived advantages you bring up really aren't advantages. You're seemingly incapable of removing your rose colored glasses and seeing things as they are.

Again, you have a unique product that undoubtedly has use in some applications. But , you're way behind a lot of other options, fail to recognize and admit it, and keep coming up with all these so called advantages to try and justify your products existence.

 

[RistoS]

I agree with jake, the intended advertising space isn't actually that valuable. Too small for video, and not noticeable for casual players and spectators unlike basket headbands or tee signs.