jedwards
Eagle Member
Probably the best way is to watch this video -- hope it helps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOECjLjhiTI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOECjLjhiTI
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Forehand Disc Selection Recommendations
- Thread starter Whisker Biscuit
- Start date
I just started watching it and I have two comments.
- The music reminds me of a 70's porn. Not that I have ever seen a 70's porn
- I still can't believe Mark Ellis is the guy who teaches all this stuff. I remember when he started. He was really bad. But it sure looks like he has some game now.
Rbuzz9
Eagle Member
ill be sure to see what i do when i toss sidearm next - it's certainly a more deliberate "windup" / throw than say tossing a baseball sidearm. i usually just take a few steps - but i really havent tried any sort of aggressive run up. im used to baseball where you only take a step or two before you throw sidearm or overhand. Is there an "x step" type move for forehands out there?
discinator
Par Member
You can kinda throw in a small x step like some of the guys in the video, but I really only use it when I have a lot of room play with. I am a little more erratic when I start moving too much. The courses I play are pretty narrow, so I tend to just use a one step approach.
brokenfixed
Par Member
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2008
- Messages
- 107
I sorta describe the motion to skipping a rock. When youre skipping a rock youre snapping at the side of your body and a bit lower down. Ive taught 2 people this so far and it worked instantly as soon as i said "skip a rock" BAM dudes can throw sidearm now
High Flyer
Newbie
I started using the x-step on forehands a couple months ago, and it added about 50 feet to my distance drive. Also, where the x-step is more of a full body motion, it really took the stress off my arm and shoulder, but at the same time started working my butt and hips.
If you're right handed, just put your right foot behind your left before you pivot to release. Keep your steps small and simple to start, ie don't overstep. I find using the whole body helps to concentrate more on your aim and less on getting power.
jedwards
Eagle Member
- The music reminds me of a 70's porn. Not that I have ever seen a 70's porn
- I still can't believe Mark Ellis is the guy who teaches all this stuff.
LOL -- Maybe they let Mark Ellis pick the music. He looks like he's pretty familiar with 70's porn.
First of all let me say, I wish I had a very small girlfriend to play DG with.
Try the T-Bone ultralight. Has more glide than any driver out there. Is stable but with almost no fade. Great for cute little disc golfers. Mine lands in the same area as my 175 Champ destroyer when I air it out, but is also great for approaching and putting.
I put forehands out ~400' with decent consistency, and when there is the teepad available, I do a full run-up, using whatever space there is on the teepad. I throw, kind-of mid-run, and my follow-through from the forward momentum usually ends up leaving me ~20' in front and a little left of the teepad. I often am surprised when I turn around after a big drive, look back, and realize how far I've gone since the teebox.
For me, the run-up and follow through helps keep joint stress to a minimum, and seems to get pretty good distance. I don't have video, but if I ever do get some, I'll put it up...
For you guys that throw them out there pretty far. What is the distance compared with your backhand shot? How about accuracy compared to the backhand?
High Flyer
Newbie
I get about 50 feet more on my forehand than backhand. I don't think aiming is a big issue for my forehand shot as much as getting the right trajectory (often too high or low).
On the other hand, forehand is mostly a driving throw for me. Anything under 200 feet, I'll usually go backhand, even if I'm curving right.
I like the star Wraith as a forehand disc, though any of the wide rim overstable drivers mentioned above can work fine in my experience. Don't use an under-stable disc except for forehand roller shots.
The key to the forehand shot is getting your wrist flicking the disc forward faster than the forward motion of your arm just before a clean flat release. Your middle and index fingers on the inside rim provide the leverage that allows your wrist to both propel and spin the disc forward, so try and get both of them on the rim to begin. All good forehand throwers I've seen have their wrists cocking back as the forward arm motion begins from the backswing, like the loading of a spring, and then a powerful unloading forward snap just before release.
I don't think the snapping of a towel is a good analogy...indeed, some pros use this terminology in a derogatory way to describe the way backhand dominant beginners and amateurs throw the forehand. I've heard all sorts of advice on the forehand, and I'm still working on improving myself. I can throw accurately up to about 250 ft...longer shots have a lot of scatter. Here are some tidbits I've found helpful...
- Get the forward wrist snap, and don't throw your arm forward faster than your wrist can accommodate...you'll need to build up wrist strength, for a special kind of wrist motion, before you get over the hump and can throw at your arm's full potential.
- Use your back foot to propel your torso forward and turn your hips as you step onto your plant foot (plant foot is opposite side foot as your throwing hand) and have your hips, chest, and head facing forward in the direction you want to throw the disc when you release it. Your arm should be coming forward in sync with the hip rotation.
- Take a good backswing, it never hurts, and can help you to aim better by orienting and controlling the forward motion of the disc while it is still in your hands.
- Don't over bend your arm at the elbow, but do let it also bend like the wrist and allow the elbow to slightly lead the forward motion of your arm, passing forward past your throwing side hip just slightly ahead of the wrist, which is also cocked at this point and slightly ahead of the disc.
- The wrist snap and release needs to be smooth, don't jerk it or stop the forward motion of your arm (this is why the towel snap fails as a good analogy). If you want to begin throwing more powerful shots, you should have a good follow through to carry your momentum and your arm around after release.
When I throw a forehand properly, there is a lot of wear-and-tear on the thumbward-side of my upper index finger from the disc ripping out of the crease. This is especially true of DX-like grippy plastics. This extra friction actually slows the disc down a bit too, and causes some flutter in extreme cases. My solution is to use star plastic, after I've carefully filed down the little sharp plastic knife edge ring around the rim from the plastic pressing out of the mold form upon manufacture...I recommend everyone do this anyways, forehand too.
The key to the forehand shot is getting your wrist flicking the disc forward faster than the forward motion of your arm just before a clean flat release. Your middle and index fingers on the inside rim provide the leverage that allows your wrist to both propel and spin the disc forward, so try and get both of them on the rim to begin. All good forehand throwers I've seen have their wrists cocking back as the forward arm motion begins from the backswing, like the loading of a spring, and then a powerful unloading forward snap just before release.
I don't think the snapping of a towel is a good analogy...indeed, some pros use this terminology in a derogatory way to describe the way backhand dominant beginners and amateurs throw the forehand. I've heard all sorts of advice on the forehand, and I'm still working on improving myself. I can throw accurately up to about 250 ft...longer shots have a lot of scatter. Here are some tidbits I've found helpful...
- Get the forward wrist snap, and don't throw your arm forward faster than your wrist can accommodate...you'll need to build up wrist strength, for a special kind of wrist motion, before you get over the hump and can throw at your arm's full potential.
- Use your back foot to propel your torso forward and turn your hips as you step onto your plant foot (plant foot is opposite side foot as your throwing hand) and have your hips, chest, and head facing forward in the direction you want to throw the disc when you release it. Your arm should be coming forward in sync with the hip rotation.
- Take a good backswing, it never hurts, and can help you to aim better by orienting and controlling the forward motion of the disc while it is still in your hands.
- Don't over bend your arm at the elbow, but do let it also bend like the wrist and allow the elbow to slightly lead the forward motion of your arm, passing forward past your throwing side hip just slightly ahead of the wrist, which is also cocked at this point and slightly ahead of the disc.
- The wrist snap and release needs to be smooth, don't jerk it or stop the forward motion of your arm (this is why the towel snap fails as a good analogy). If you want to begin throwing more powerful shots, you should have a good follow through to carry your momentum and your arm around after release.
When I throw a forehand properly, there is a lot of wear-and-tear on the thumbward-side of my upper index finger from the disc ripping out of the crease. This is especially true of DX-like grippy plastics. This extra friction actually slows the disc down a bit too, and causes some flutter in extreme cases. My solution is to use star plastic, after I've carefully filed down the little sharp plastic knife edge ring around the rim from the plastic pressing out of the mold form upon manufacture...I recommend everyone do this anyways, forehand too.
High Flyer
Newbie
You know, I hear all this about keeping your elbow in, snapping your wrist, two fingers under the disc, it just doesn't work for me.
If you do the x-step, and really get your body into it, the spin comes pretty naturally with just your pointer finger under the rim. On the other hand, that grip doesn't do well sidarming some of my favorite wide rimmed discs (ie Roc and Shark).
Half the reason you can get more power on a side arm isn't the arm muscles you're using, it's because you're pivoting off the opposite foot, and getting a longer radius for rotation (ie with the same rotational velocity of a backhand, you're getting more linear velocity with a wider circle). Kind of like dunking a basketball, if you're right handed, you jump off your left foot so you can reach further.
Do the x-step, get your body into it, and with all that centrifugal force on your arm, you might find your elbow naturally straightens, and your arm naturally goes perpendicular to your body. And on the topic of centrifugal force, I don't know if it's "proper technique," but you can even lean into the shot, creating a nice set up for an anhyzer, s-curve, or even a roller.
It's all very fascinating to me, and again, I'm just saying what works for me, and by no means trying to claim "propriety."
If you do the x-step, and really get your body into it, the spin comes pretty naturally with just your pointer finger under the rim. On the other hand, that grip doesn't do well sidarming some of my favorite wide rimmed discs (ie Roc and Shark).
Half the reason you can get more power on a side arm isn't the arm muscles you're using, it's because you're pivoting off the opposite foot, and getting a longer radius for rotation (ie with the same rotational velocity of a backhand, you're getting more linear velocity with a wider circle). Kind of like dunking a basketball, if you're right handed, you jump off your left foot so you can reach further.
Do the x-step, get your body into it, and with all that centrifugal force on your arm, you might find your elbow naturally straightens, and your arm naturally goes perpendicular to your body. And on the topic of centrifugal force, I don't know if it's "proper technique," but you can even lean into the shot, creating a nice set up for an anhyzer, s-curve, or even a roller.
It's all very fascinating to me, and again, I'm just saying what works for me, and by no means trying to claim "propriety."
Rbuzz9
Eagle Member
Just purchased a 171g Star Destroyer online - should arrive tomorrow!
My accuracy with my forehand is better than my accuracy with my backhand, but I've thrown forehands longer and have thrown a lot more of them, so that is a matter of practice I think, more than anything. As for distance, it really depends on the line. On the course, I try to throw whatever shot the hole demands of me, or whatever shot has the best risk/reward potential, and wind speed/direction also factors in.
Flat ground, open field, zero wind, my forehand is probably about 40' farther on average than my backhands, and with better consistency. Max-distance forehands will land in the 380-420' range in those conditions; backhands will be in the 340-380' range, unless I get a big helix just perfect, in which case I can get that magic 400'+ RHBH, but the consistency is so poor it's useless in my golf game and would only be attempted on the practice field.
The fun part was at an A-tier this weekend (taking my first pro cash, whoop!), I was frequently outdriving the pros I was playing with for "golf distance". Pretty much any of them could outdrive me in field, but that's not worth much if they don't lace the drive down the fairway. One little branch and a big-arm's 450'+ of distance becomes 250' and in the rough.
I also got my longest deuce ever this weekend off back-to-back flicks: 675' on Tony's Valley at Paw Paw. Flicked a 167g Star Destroyer ~480' on a helix to the others side of the valley and flicked a 175g Star Firebird on a spike-hyzer ~200' uphill and it drove straight into the chains and stuck. Whoop!
Rbuzz9
Eagle Member
i was just out tossing my new Destroyer and other various discs at the nearby field. I think i just accidentally discovered how to throw a forehand "FLICK" drive. Its impressive how you can get so much distance from a fairly effortless throw. At the field there were too many people around the other day so i pretty much had the outfield of a softball field to work with and would throw across it - and go back and forth mostly backhand - then i was flicking all of my discs with slight anhyzers and they seemed to be going a mile - much further than any backhand at full power. So when i finally had room i tried this flicking technique with my Firebird, Destroyer ,Flick and even a Rogue was throwing some impressive drives. They were all under control and all had a nice helix to them. - i really like the Destroyer - gets A lot more glide than my Flick
I still want to find a way to throw more traditional forehand -and get my whole body into it w/out turning the discs over everytime- i suspect i should focus on keeping the disc more stable and with an anhyzer upon release.
I still want to find a way to throw more traditional forehand -and get my whole body into it w/out turning the discs over everytime- i suspect i should focus on keeping the disc more stable and with an anhyzer upon release.
SunIsBlue15
Newbie
So I primarily throw RHBH, but my friend only throw RHFH. Because I play with him a lot, it makes it very clear that it would be very advantageous to be able to throw FH and BH decently. So I read through this thread to get a good idea of what disc to throw and how to go about getting better. I don't want to go back through the thread, but someone mentioned throwing a round where you throw BH and FH, and then compare the scores. I tested that strategy out today and it really does help. I was able to really see the advantage / disadvantage of a certain shot if I was forcing myself to throw one style or the other. Anyway, the point of this post is just to say thanks to whoever posted that idea because I think it really has, and will, help me a lot.
Rbuzz9
Eagle Member
i'll have to try the FH & BH only rounds - there's definitely a huge advantage to be able to throw a decent FH and BH. Most people are BH dominant - but if they all learned even an ok FH it gives a whole new set of options for difficult shots.
I strongly agree with learning and using both the FH and BH to get a balanced game. I think everyone can learn to do both, it just takes practice. I've been practicing my RHFH throws over the past few weeks (I usually throw a highly accurate 200-250 ft RHBH on many different lines, but have trouble adding distance RHBH without losing lots of accuracy). I've gained ~80 ft and a ton of accuracy with the forehand (I've been practice throwing across a seldom used but nicely kept soccer field aiming at the goal on the other side). Most of this has come from simply relaxing a bit and not over-powering it as much. My walk up and footwork are not so different from the bowling I used to do before my ex-girlfriend lost my balls. I also grew up playing baseball, and I can generate a ton of arm speed even side arm, but I won't be able to use all of this power until I condition my wrist to be able to push the disc forward faster than my arm during the wrist snap. When I can do that, I look forward to throwing 350-400 ft (I'm rapidly going up through the 300 ft mark now), and I'll probably end up being a RHFH dominant driver on longer holes and then a RHBH dominant mid-range/approach thrower but with a backhand option everywhere.
Yesterday I went to a local course that is incredibly overgrown and tough even on short holes. The forehand/backhand option got me several birdies and many pars where I had only bogeyed previously! I also experimented with throwing my sidewinders FH with a bit of hyzer angle and it was nice seeing them flip flat and do huge S-turns. This is going to be a blast!
Yesterday I went to a local course that is incredibly overgrown and tough even on short holes. The forehand/backhand option got me several birdies and many pars where I had only bogeyed previously! I also experimented with throwing my sidewinders FH with a bit of hyzer angle and it was nice seeing them flip flat and do huge S-turns. This is going to be a blast!
High Flyer
Newbie
I think that's the best thing about this game, you learn something new, add something to your arsenal, try a different strategy, your game continues to evolve and it's a lot of fun.
