Form Critique please.

[PWaggoner]

Ive posted before awhile back. I was told some things to study awhile back like right pec drill and Bradley sling video. I don't think ive read everything but pretty much had to have read it/watched it at some point. Been going back through all the stuff for like the millionth time. I started two Christmas's ago and when I asked the first time I appreciated sidewinder22 showing me good places to start researching. Its been about a year I think since I posted and now I have to ask for help again. I can throw a destroyer/wraith flat for about 370. Sometimes maybe 385-390. About the same distance as I used to throw but it is soooo much easier now.

I used to have a lot of OAT's and would throw huge hyzer bombs with max weight boss's and sometimes they would still turn over. Something was wrong. So after a lot of studying and trying to work on it im at these videos. Im far from perfect as even I can see (mostly not turning my shoulders nearly enough I think). Ill have to get videos of me throwing in a video but today was under time constraints and didn't throw in the field at schumaker. Maybe tomorrow. There are couple trees in front of me


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py4Ky4eZe2I&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN-ozhlOdyE&feature=youtu.be

 

[sidewinder22]

You aren't quite bracing against the side(weight shifted) before swinging. Transfer weight/head to front leg then swing. Watch your high elbow/shoulder going into the reachback, only time a pro does that is for a roller. Change your balance so your arm swings under the shoulder. Also looks like the elbow is not getting far forward, so your hit point should be like a foot or so forward closer to the target.

 

[PWaggoner]

Tyvm! Im going to watch these videos. Watched the first and second video once before, third one is new. Tomorrow I shall work on getting weight fully forward before throwing. Pushing my elbow out more. Hinging my arm and elbow lower then shoulder. And getting a lower backswing.

 

[PWaggoner]

Little report. I'm throwing about 400+ now. On a few about 415. And this is with slighty used star destroyers throwing flat. I'm now throwing eagles about the distance I was throwing my destroyer last time i posted. About 380 with a good rip going 395ish.

I know i have not mastered the above videos but feel i've taken something away as the distance is easier then ever. I'm going to continue watching the videos and practicing the drills until I really feel I get it.

I've lowered my backswing and it think its feeling pretty good.

Now some issues i am having. Sometimes I feel like i lose "my feel" for the disc. Its always been my biggest problem. On days I have the feel I rip it and play pretty good and on those days I dont feel the disc (or my hand. I'm not sure which its hard to explain).

Also Sidewinder you mentioned I need to get my elbow out more. Do I push the elbow out as far as itll go before I turn my body towards the basket(or target line etc etc). When i push it as far as I can without turning my hand/disc is basically in my armpit. Is that how far it needs to be? And say there is a straight line in front of my body and that is where im pulling the disc. Does the elbow stay on that line the entire time or does it change a bit at the end after the right pec. I remember reading the elbow chop is more at 10:30 then 12. And 12 would be the straight line in front of my body pointed at the target.

Sorry if thats hard to understand lol. Its tough explaining things technically in writing. Wish i had some big guns locally to me!

 

[sidewinder22]

Things are very hard to explain because it's all happening in a split second and you are trying to decipher what you feel vs what you see which can vary quite a bit. Other things will vary as everyone has different lever lengths and speed and rhythm. Slowing down everything typically helps getting more feeling.

In general at the plant/max reachback position my arm/disc to back of shoulder is aimed at my apex of the disc flight. Then as my weight transfers forward the shoulder stops moving forward and the arm/disc continues forward with the elbow leading the wrist/disc down the line to the apex. That should load you into the power pocket/position. Once you feel the disc becoming heavy/bending/loading your elbow and wrist inward, you begin firing from the ground up and if your sequence is good you will have an effortless toss. The actually bend in the elbow and/or wrist doesn't need to be great(typically helps to bend more as a drill, as shoulder speed increases elbow bend often lessens or moves further back), you want great tension to the disc, like a taut rope. There's a balance between being too loose(too much bend) and too tight. Loose is fast and out of control. A tighter spring is stronger if you can load it. I've found a fan grip to really help feel the weight of the disc. Also a two finger grip will help with timing usually.

 

[PWaggoner]

SW22 is the towel snapping drill a good drill to learn to continuously snap? I've been practicing a ton lately and while I'm almost always atleast half hitting (with a towel) Id like to be able to do hit each time. When I hit I swear it sounds like a 22 going off and feels soooo good lol. So I'm wondering whether it's time to out the towel down or should I keep practicing and refining until I can hit it each time?

 

[sidewinder22]

No. Towel drill is only good for learning about late acceleration and warm up. You can crack the crap out of a towel and have terrible throwing mechanics, and could even lead to injury trying to throw with towel cracking mechanics.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

In case you missed this post: http://heavydisc.blogspot.com/2014/09/elbow-extension.html

Towards the bottom of the page I did video that shows a drill for getting the elbow leading your shoulder.

I never do the towel drill. I think SW is dead on - snapping a towel or a whip is completely different from a backhand in terms of what you really want to be getting the feel for.

 

[PWaggoner]

Ty SW22. I'll keep trudging. Also thank you for the link hyzerunibomber haven't read it going to check it out right now.

 

[PWaggoner]

Good stuff I believe I understood all that

 

[PWaggoner]

SS22 I've been practicing hard just a FYI. I was wondering your opinion on whether i should throw straight armed or bent elbow? Should I use a x step or the brinster hop? At this time I've been practicing locking the femur and hip(or however you said it I'm sure you know what I'm speaking of). It feels powerful standing still but have yet to be able get it to happen with a xstep. Been practicing the wall drill which helps teach that correct? Anyway I'll figure it out and when I do I want to know for sure I'm using the right run up.

I notice that our body types are not very similar and was wondering if I molded my throw after yours would be able to achieve the same results? I feel like height may be similar it's hard to tell in a vid. I am 5 10 1/2 and I weigh 150 pds. You seem like you have a lot more muscle (weight) then me. Advantages and disadvantages?

I also would like your opinion on shoulder rotation and what I should be focusing on there. Idk I should be driving with the shoulder like I read how leverage players throw.

 

[sidewinder22]

My advice is to try everything you can and try to mimic styles of similar body type. Try a Moser two hop, you will likely fail miserably at first, until you get your balance and timing somewhat decent.

Try throwing like the guy in the red shirt next to Avery, pure Swedish/lever:

 

[PWaggoner]

Do you have any good videos of the Mose doing his double hop? For the most part all the vids I've watched if he's going for d he's doing a roller. Or the hole was technical and he would seem only to do one hop.

Also. Would you consider private lesson? I think your only a couple hours away from me. Moser is closer and possibly Steven miller but I don't know how to contact either to see if they would be interested. I would even pay!

 

[sidewinder22]

Possibly in the spring. Ulibarri's form is better than Mike's, these were some bombs:

 

[PWaggoner]

Got a backhand vid up on youtube. I havent really been posting them because i see flaws myself.

I know my reachback is too early, my pull line too high. My follow threw wasnt great today either.

It was rainy today and i only got a few throws in so my muscles were still cold.

https://youtu.be/jIyApCJKv6k

Am i doing anything good?

 

[sidewinder22]

The Good...you are young and athletic. It looks a lot better and smoother than before.

The Bad...not really loading your hips/core internally. Your feet are too backward to load against/inside them more for a more forward move. Probably swaying your hips to the left.

The Ugly...swing plane or lack of. Your grip can't be right. You should keep your arm/disc under the plane of the shoulders and the plane of the disc always level to the shoulders. Because you swing over the top your shoulders/off plane, your arm swing/extension is directed toward the ground(high to low) and shortened from going outward toward the target more.

Watch how Brinster always keep the plane of the disc level to and under the shoulders. GG keeps the arm/disc under/inside the shoulder plane, although he takes the disc off plane to the shoulders, but keeps it more level to the ground. If you got into a tug of war with either of them at the max reachback/front foot down position(Door Frame), they would rip your arm out your shoulder socket. You can see the core tension in GG's shirt wound up, his front shoulder is still loaded/loading back against the rear knee(knee under hip), foot and hip still making a positive move.

 

[PWaggoner]

Ty! I'm going to work on the grip and plane issue first. Seems like a serious issue and until you pointed it out, I couldn't see it.

I've always felt my grip was weird. So now it's confirmed.

Kinda makes sense because of how high I have to throw discs like putters and mids to air them out.

And also shows how well golf discs can hide form flaws.

I'll get some more coming up. Time to hit up the old chain link fence tmr. Thanks again!

 

[PWaggoner]

So with the form above, what would be your professional opinion on my low/ high end distance SS22?

And will this grip change and plane adjustment get me more distance?

Ive been playing around with grip, but at work so cant work on alignment yet. I think i get what you were saying in the grip and alignment video. Just will take me a few sessions i think to fix, doesnt seem like a very difficult fix. Just a huge problem.

 

[sidewinder22]

I'd guess a wildly inconsistent 450' max with the current form because you are young and athletic. Throwing on plane may not necessarily yield more distance, but it should be more efficient and more consistent on more lines.

 

[PWaggoner]

Also. Man if you were a champion sidewinder i would give you a kiss!

Ive seen immediate results from the grip change, having it more in the base of the pointer finger. Discs are bit more stable as well. My turnover flat top roc is flying like a straight roc and im able to throw it on spike hyzers instead of a flattening hyzer.

Its going to be a fun challenge relearning all my discs.

Also i applied the same grip change while putting and its so amazing how they seem more floaty. I can understand how anthon putts with a bit of anhyzer. Before when id putt anhyzer, alot of times just a bit would make it go right a ton. Sometimes it would hold the fade off but it worked hardly at all.

My jump putts are constiently flying right at the basket instead of it being a 30 % straight arrow and rest like a spasming wounded duck possible breakin to the right or hyzering out. Sometimes 10 ft short or 15 ft to the right. So many basket hits.

man my putting was god awful unless im throwing these nose down hyzers. I practiced all the time and got no where with all kinds of techniques. I just thought i was bad..

So thank you so much for fixing my putting while trying to fix my horrible form. Im always like 5-6 strokes a round from winning advanced. And i feel like i lose 5 easily a round from in the circle. Partially from no confidence in my crap putt and mostly from a improper grip making it darn hard to be consistent.

You the man!