Recently played a round where a disc came to rest on a frozen pond. The ice was thick enough to walk out on, so the player walked out and threw without a penalty stroke. We checked the rules and there was nothing addressing frozen water hazards. Whatdayathink?
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Frozen Water Hazard
- Thread starter Woodchuck
- Start date
Isn't water considered O.B.?
Frozen or not?
Frozen or not?
If he complains, remind him he's lucky he didn't get a one disc penalty!
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
No. Water is casual unless identified as OB by the TD or signage. If the pond is normally OB when not frozen, it's still OB when frozen unless the TD says otherwise. If it's normally not OB, then you can walk on it when frozen and safe OR choose to take relief per the casual relief rule 803.05B.
803.03F
F. A disc thrown in water shall be deemed to be at rest once it is floating or is moving only
by the action of the water or the wind on the water.
http://www.pdga.com/rules/80303-marking-the-lie
For our local leagues, when a disc is thrown onto a pond or stream that is frozen, we consider it to be in play because the PDGA rule clearly addresses a disc thrown IN water. A disc that comes to rest on top of ice can not also be in water at the same time.
Obviously if it were in a tournament, the TD may or may not use the strict interpretation of the rule b/c there is nothing that addresses frozen water hazards. But your situation does not sound like a tournament.
F. A disc thrown in water shall be deemed to be at rest once it is floating or is moving only
by the action of the water or the wind on the water.
http://www.pdga.com/rules/80303-marking-the-lie
For our local leagues, when a disc is thrown onto a pond or stream that is frozen, we consider it to be in play because the PDGA rule clearly addresses a disc thrown IN water. A disc that comes to rest on top of ice can not also be in water at the same time.
Obviously if it were in a tournament, the TD may or may not use the strict interpretation of the rule b/c there is nothing that addresses frozen water hazards. But your situation does not sound like a tournament.
So if a body of water is normally OB, then same frozen body of water is also OB. OB then would start where the ice meets the bank. What about a situation where the disc is at rest on both ice and land? Is there a certain percentage of disc that must be touching land for it to be in bounds? I only ask because some peeps I play with have a penchant for loopholes.
Disc has to be completely surrounded by ob to be considered ob. Is the frozen water OB? That's something that needs to be determined beforehand, if a casual round between friends, make a decision b4 u begin. If a tourney, the TD will let you know what the OBs are in the players meeting. Around here there's so much snow that the line between frozen water and ground is not determinable, I generally play that only ob marked by stakes or other obvious fashion (streets/paths) are ob.
elevated plastic
Double Eagle Member
It's OB. Next round he has to start +2 on hole 1.
Giv'r
Eagle Member
This. :thmbup:
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
We are working on special supplemental rules for PDGA sanctioned winter play. Our recommendation is to make all bodies of water casual even those that are normally OB when not frozen. This way, if the ice is safe enough to walk on, players can throw from there. If the ice is iffy or a player doesn't wish to play from there, they may take extended relief with no penalty back to the edge on the line of play. If the body of water is so large that line of play would sometimes be off the property (like Lake Michigan), they may play from the previous lie with no penalty other than counting the throw onto the ice.
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