Future disc golf companies

[The dude on the bike]

While I am usually one that is what I would call a loyalist in my thinking and spending- midwest made suits, belts, shoes, MI grown foods, american made car...I listen to a forgotten music genre, prefer dg to grow at a slow rate, would hate a nike invasion, I throw dc for a number of local driven reasons- I don't see vibram as a threat and welcome them. While I'm comitted to the challenger, I still grabbed a couple hundred bucks in vibram putters as well as the VO dvd's and minis. Their designs are solid and events seem to be a new must.

My view of vibram may be skewd and under researched, but I see them as a company with good intentions. As far as I know, VIBRAM DOESN'T MAKE SHOES, they make out soles. Companies such as merrell, north face, johnson and murphy, etc use them to make activity specific outsoles- the same way they use gore tex or e event for waterproofing. So for example you can getmerrells with vibram outsoles but some models are not, just as some keen models have keen dry and some use e event.

Outdoor companies are the sponsorship I like to see. Vibram having events, keen having sponsored players. Imo, providing the gear needed at a decent price is just as needed as my discs. If non world domination compaies continue to support dg, I will continue to suppot them.

I also drink from dg supporting brewers


Just for discussion, what if baskets where made by an outsider? Could they supply the boom of courses with a chepar option or better innovation???

I agree and not just because I took my thorazine today.

 

[schnelle]

wal mart just needs to stick with dx plastic if they want that discount affect.

 

[schnelle]

oops is it affect or effect. Can never remember that one. Guess thats why i should have gotten a diploma instead of a GED. Oh well

 

[tom8658]

We had a member who had a serious problem with Vibram, a problem that obviously ran deeper that not liking a particular disc. I really just wanted to explore that a little, because I know some other people who have some fears about it as well.

Anyone who is afraid of Vibram because they make shoes is off their rocker. By the same token, shouldn't you be afraid of MVP because their primary money makers aren't golf discs? Both companies started off molding other things out of disc material, then decided they could make money molding discs. Both companies make quality products.

Both companies have people ON THIS SITE talking to customers (and being very polite to Apoth, I might add, much more polite than he deserved).

Vibram sponsored a tournament.

More importantly, both companies have come up with innovative products, which is more than I can say for the established companies.

 

[Technohic]

I don't know. The thought of the major companies getting involved to me seems like would only happen once this sport becomes more main stream and have a lot more popularity. We are growing fast, thats for sure; but I believe Nike already tested the waters and it failed. Wal~Mart has tried to sell discs on the shelves and that has largely been a failure, probably because when they do put it in a store, they dont do all of them and most of us don't even know its there.

No, right now the people who are successful in getting into the disc golf market are those who reach out to the actual disc golfers which is still not all that big of a group. Innova and Discraft sponsoring and being involved for a long time. ABC showing up at tournaments to introduce their products. Then, more and more of them even come to sites like this one; such as MVP, ABC, Discraft, Lat64 has someone on the DGR board from time to time and the very same Steven Dodge comes and talks to us.

These people connect with the disc golf community because they really are a part of it. Vibram has been involved IMO longer than just making discs. I find it little different than Innova deciding to make bags when they did.

Now when the guys like Nike finally see a market to get in with a serious effort, it will be when we have much bigger changes in how our sport is viewed and the size of its market, and by that point, probably will be scheduling tee times in order to play. All I know is I hope I'm either long gone or at least stocked up enough with my then "old school" discs.

 

[cmcolomb]

wal mart just needs to stick with dx plastic if they want that discount affect.

I sincerely hope that I am dead before I see discs at suckmart. If that is what you want, fine, more power to you. Some people, however, need to open their eyes a little wider and see the big picture - companies such as walmart are killing america, I could continue down this rabbit hole but there is no point - I can only lead the horses to water.

I will also jump on the notion that Vibram has no roots in disc golf - they merely saw an opportunity and jumped on it. They have found a way to make a profit off of their scrap, good for them. For now, I will stick to keeping them on my feet..

 

[discmeister]

IMO, the sport will need to grow further before it would be profitable for a "Wal-Mart" style discount disc to be marketed. The demand is not there at this time. I think national TV exposure for the tour may be the tipping point for that.

 

[Triflusal]

Anyone who is afraid of Vibram because they make shoes is off their rocker. By the same token, shouldn't you be afraid of MVP because their primary money makers aren't golf discs? Both companies started off molding other things out of disc material, then decided they could make money molding discs. Both companies make quality products.

Both companies have people ON THIS SITE talking to customers (and being very polite to Apoth, I might add, much more polite than he deserved).

Vibram sponsored a tournament.

More importantly, both companies have come up with innovative products, which is more than I can say for the established companies.

this is an excellent point that I should have argued with him, wish I would have thought of that

 

[Brall]

the sport will grow

some companies will be crushed

new ones will spring up

there will be monster companies specializing in disc golf

just the nature of the beast

scary? kinda, but there will always be great, quality discs out there. the disc golf gods demand awesomeness from their z, champ, gl, opto plastics.

as for when the sport will grow, i'm a firm believer that there will somehow be an explosive moment of growth by the year 2020-2025, similar to hold'em poker and the moneymaker effect. television + someone with the knowhow and funds = BOOM

"and you can take that to the bank" -

 

[what'shisname]

My take on Vibram is that Steve was able to get himself in a position where he's backed by a big corporation and able to take that and help grow a sport that he loves while also hopefully creating a sustainable new business for Vibram. IMO Steve and Vibram are doing nothing but good for the sport with the money that they bring in with sponsorships and backing projects like the Chains movie, etc.

As an aside, their discs being made of rubber though may end up pricing them out of the cheap, small disc golf market. I read this morning that the world's stockpile are a mere 69 days worth of demand. Meaning... the price of everything made of rubber is sure to be going up sooner than later.

 

[ProOffense]

That is what the PDGA is for, they can choose to not give approval to inferior walmart discs.

Ya untill Wal-Mart says, " ...come on PDGA, we'll give you XX million dollars to approve our discs,(and essentually sell your soul to us.)" Because money talks and bull $hit walks. If BIG name companies wants you, they get you. Corparate America doesnt provide the american dream, it destroys it.

As far as customers go, the number of loyal disc golfers is much higher than rec golfers. What i mean is, regardless of companies knock offs, (using korean children to make discs for $.25 and sell it for $10, undercutting the rest) the true disc golf communities will never abandon ship on OUR disc companies. I believe no matter the future, we as a whole will not let our sport become another victim to corporate society and its evil. Nor, allow our favorite "disc makers" fall to the hands of FAT CATS. My $.02...

 

[simpletwist]

There's no stopping big companies once they decide to go in any direction. And eventually mass marketed crap is the end result. Meanwhile small companies like ABC might suffer and or fail. But that is true of every sport.

Take ball golf for example. I have custom fitted Harvey Penick irons. They listed for over $1000. But you can get a brand new set of clubs from Walmart for less than $100, or parhaps a little more. But there is no shortage of quality manufacturers either. No pro swings a Ti-Tech clubs. Its Ping, Cleveland, Taylor Made, Callaway, etc. You can buy golf balls from a no name company for $8 a dozen or Titleists for $50 a dozen.

If this happens and Vibram could very well be the tip of the iceberg, companies like ABC need to aggressively seek to sponsor pros. Then market in a way that shows us this.

Small companies in any market scenario have to fight for their small market share. I'm certain that small companies in recently exploded and exploited sports like snowboarding, have come and gone while other small companies remain. We can't stop the snowball from rolling down the hill and growing to huge proportions if indeed that snowball starts rolling down the hill.

Bottom line its up to the pros and to us to see that quality trumps mass marketed, cheap quantity. My first set of discs were a Wham-O starter set. Cost $15 at Walmart. I fell in love with the sport and now Wham-O discs are collecting dust and mouse turds somewhere in my garage. If I had never seen those discs on the shelve I might never have started playing and spending $1000s.

Like any sport, once you're hooked and you want to improve, you'll want to get the best equipment you can afford. You'll seek out companies like Innova, Discraft, Lat64, or small companies like ABC. Little companies like ABC need to ensure their viability by smart business sense. Produce high quality sought after equipment for a reasonable cost and they will remain in business.

And one last thought, it is also up to us as members of the PDGA to ensure that we maintain our strict standards.

 

[tom8658]

Ya untill Wal-Mart says, " ...come on PDGA, we'll give you XX million dollars to approve our discs,(and essentually sell your soul to us.)" Because money talks and bull $hit walks. If BIG name companies wants you, they get you. Corparate America doesnt provide the american dream, it destroys it.

I sincerely hope that I am dead before I see discs at suckmart. If that is what you want, fine, more power to you. Some people, however, need to open their eyes a little wider and see the big picture - companies such as walmart are killing america, I could continue down this rabbit hole but there is no point - I can only lead the horses to water.

<offtopic>
Yeah, those darn fat cats with their successful business that sell us food and gas and computers and cars and groceries. Down with success! :|

Look - corporations exist to make money for their shareholders. Period. Getting mad about that is about as fruitful as getting mad at a dog for licking itself inappropriately. I hate shopping at Walmart too, but there's no point in being angry at Walmart. If you want to be mad, be mad at the people who shop there, or be mad at the idiots who continue to vote for corporate owned candidates, or be mad at the politicians who keep shooting down meaningful campaign finance reform.
</offtopic>

Bottom line its up to the pros and to us to see that quality trumps mass marketed, cheap quantity. My first set of discs were a Wham-O starter set. Cost $15 at Walmart. I fell in love with the sport and now Wham-O discs are collecting dust and mouse turds somewhere in my garage. If I had never seen those discs on the shelve I might never have started playing and spending $1000s.

Like any sport, once you're hooked and you want to improve, you'll want to get the best equipment you can afford. You'll seek out companies like Innova, Discraft, Lat64, or small companies like ABC. Little companies like ABC need to ensure their viability by smart business sense. Produce high quality sought after equipment for a reasonable cost and they will remain in business.

And one last thought, it is also up to us as members of the PDGA to ensure that we maintain our strict standards.

Exactly. It took me all of two days to realize that the Wham-O discs I first started with were total garbage. I wanted to get better, so I went out and bought nicer discs. Some people might be happy with bad equipment, but they are the people who were not terribly likely to buy a ton of discs anyway. It's up to the smaller companies to market themselves as makers of quality products, which shouldn't be terribly difficult - you won't see touring pros throwing Walmart discs.

 

[ProOffense]

<offtopic>
Yeah, those darn fat cats with their successful business that sell us food and gas and computers and cars and groceries. Down with success! :|

Look - corporations exist to make money for their shareholders. Period. Getting mad about that is about as fruitful as getting mad at a dog for licking itself inappropriately. I hate shopping at Walmart too, but there's no point in being angry at Walmart. If you want to be mad, be mad at the people who shop there, or be mad at the idiots who continue to vote for corporate owned candidates, or be mad at the politicians who keep shooting down meaningful campaign finance reform.</offtopic>



no, no, no, dont get me wrong... i think this exact way too. i was really only writing in a response to the PDGA being able to hold a flame to a major company. It would be financially ignorant to turn down large sum for a simple signature. I am an advocate of stupidity in large groups of people. And like i said earlier, money talks. People who are dumb enough to purchase $hit discs will continuosly be the major demographic that these companies target. I attribute the downfall of society, to society itself.

 

[Triflusal]

If this does happen i think that people will buy the higher priced discs eventually because of "magic disc syndrome". They will get hooked and buy better discs thinking it will make them better(which would be true to an extent) when really they just need practice. (I'm not saying the walmart disc would be good)

Also, it's not like discs are expensive. Even if premium discs go to 20$ each, the 2DD will still be willing to pay after they buy the 5$ walmart disc, in search of the magic disc

 

[tistoude]

Corparate America doesnt provide the american dream, it destroys it.

<also off topic> ^^ one of the silliest things I have ever read even though I personally disdain Wal-Mart.

I love the fact that Vibram has jumped into the disc golf world. They have been supportive of the sport before producing discs and they provide an element of profesionalism and innovation to our mostly grass roots hobby/sport. Apoth called it slick marketing and it must be working since I like it even though I do not throw their discs. Also Steve Dodge is a fantastic representative of our sport with or without Vibram's backing. He has been actively involved in the disc golf world long before he was hired by Vibram to head their Disc Golf section. The innovation being provided by Vibram and MVP can only be helping our sport.

Alot of previous posts have implied a fear of a large company monopolizing the market with cheap discs. I think that if you look at what discs that all the rec players out there are playing with there is already a monopoly mostly in place. Fortunately Innova's monopoly (just a large market share really) is one we are kind of happy with since they make good discs. Perhaps this phantom future evil Multinational corporation that people of seem afraid of will actually offer a very consistent product at a good price. I don't think we should be afraid of change, but just in case stock up on the the discs that you like now.

 

[tom8658]

i was really only writing in a response to the PDGA being able to hold a flame to a major company. It would be financially ignorant to turn down large sum for a simple signature.

Yeah, idk what to think about the PDGA and Walmart discs. On the one hand, if it meets the technical specifications, why shouldn't it be approved, even if it's made of dog hair and melted coke bottles? On the other hand, I can see the argument that the PDGA should be political in it's approval process. I tend to lean towards the former, but I can see both sides.

 

[ProOffense]

Yeah, idk what to think about the PDGA and Walmart discs. On the one hand, if it meets the technical specifications, why shouldn't it be approved, even if it's made of dog hair and melted coke bottles? On the other hand, I can see the argument that the PDGA should be political in it's approval process. I tend to lean towards the former, but I can see both sides.

Exactly. Telling a company, "NO! I'm not apporoving your discs cause it could corrupt the game..." is dumb. Also, I see no threat to the DG world, as a weekend warrior and his kids buy and play with crap plastic. That demographic couldnt put a dent into the true market even if they formed an alliance to bring down our sport.

 

[ProOffense]

<also off topic> ^^ one of the silliest things I have ever read even though I personally disdain Wal-Mart.
I love the fact that Vibram has jumped into the disc golf world. They have been supportive of the sport before producing discs and they provide an element of profesionalism and innovation to our mostly grass roots hobby/sport. Apoth called it slick marketing and it must be working since I like it even though I do not throw their discs. Also Steve Dodge is a fantastic representative of our sport with or without Vibram's backing. He has been actively involved in the disc golf world long before he was hired by Vibram to head their Disc Golf section. The innovation being provided by Vibram and MVP can only be helping our sport.

Alot of previous posts have implied a fear of a large company monopolizing the market with cheap discs. I think that if you look at what discs that all the rec players out there are playing with there is already a monopoly mostly in place. Fortunately Innova's monopoly (just a large market share really) is one we are kind of happy with since they make good discs. Perhaps this phantom future evil Multinational corporation that people of seem afraid of will actually offer a very consistent product at a good price. I don't think we should be afraid of change, but just in case stock up on the the discs that you like now.

Your one of the silliest things i've read...

 

[tom8658]

Alot of previous posts have implied a fear of a large company monopolizing the market with cheap discs. I think that if you look at what discs that all the rec players out there are playing with there is already a monopoly mostly in place. Fortunately Innova's monopoly (just a large market share really) is one we are kind of happy with since they make good discs. Perhaps this phantom future evil Multinational corporation that people of seem afraid of will actually offer a very consistent product at a good price. I don't think we should be afraid of change, but just in case stock up on the the discs that you like now.

That's a good point. Here we are worried about somebody stepping in and selling crap discs at Walmart, but what happens if you go to a sporting goods store looking for your first disc? You'll walk out with a warp speed driver with a cool name. Possibly tie dye.