Great article about AM divisions.

[ru4por]

For older players who have been playing for decades I would agree. For older players, relatively new to the game, I would disagree.

Yup. I think most of this part of the discussion is infinitely individualistic. Some players have a basement full of plastic and are very happy getting more in a players pack. Some sell plastic and make some nice pocket change from player packs and winning plastic. Some love the trinkets and sundries in the players pack. Some would die to have a trophy. Many play to get outside and sate their competitive nature.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here, but I do think it could be very regional. Offering and determining what type tournament will fit the needs of the right population of golfers.

I maintain, it ain't broken. But, I think there is plenty of room in the tournament schedule around here to support both ends of the spectrum. (Current model vs. trophy only).

 

[DavidSauls]

I think Steve's comment on older players and trophies went beyond disc golf stuff, to stuff in general.

Many older players have homes full of stuff---trophies or photos or travel keepsakes or kids' awards or trinket gifts or whatever. A C-tier trophy is just going to add to the clutter.....or the garbage can. Even some newbie old players.

But of course Ru4por's right, it's very individualistic, and there'll be others who treasure them.

 

[DanJon]

Thanks for joining us.

I don't mean to accost the author. I appreciate the effort. However, I thought the article's weakness was not stating the problem, why it was a problem, or to whom it was a problem, before offering a solution.

Agreed, especially since we've learned that TD's can already do basically what the article is suggesting.

 

[Dcinmd]

Yup. I think most of this part of the discussion is infinitely individualistic. Some players have a basement full of plastic and are very happy getting more in a players pack. Some sell plastic and make some nice pocket change from player packs and winning plastic. Some love the trinkets and sundries in the players pack. Some would die to have a trophy. Many play to get outside and sate their competitive nature.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here, but I do think it could be very regional. Offering and determining what type tournament will fit the needs of the right population of golfers.

I maintain, it ain't broken. But, I think there is plenty of room in the tournament schedule around here to support both ends of the spectrum. (Current model vs. trophy only).

Some just want to get off the couch, be active in a competitive environment and live a healthier lifestyle. There are a million reason why people sign up for PDGA events and the odds are they are not the same reasons that other members are playing.

The main theme that the article and thread are off base on is that its trying to make one shoe fit every member.

 

[DavidSauls]

. There are a million reason why people sign up for PDGA events and the odds are they are not the same reasons that other members are playing.

Priceless.

Though we could have saved a couple hundred posts if it had come sooner.

 

[ThunderEagle]

So, I've helped out with a tournament or two, but really just get this, carry that, work the disc bins at payout. Played in several as well.

I'm kicking around the idea of being a TD for one next year at my home course, and the concept of a cheap, trophy only event is appealing. Can anyone help elaborate on how this works out? My thought is a C Tier obviously, 1 day, 2 round event. I'd ideally like to keep the player cost pretty small. I'm thinking a 1 Disc player pack, maybe none. A Single winner's trophy for each division. There is also the sanctioning fee and insurance certificate (we are required to get this). It would also be part of a non-profit group, and I would like $2 of each entry to go to it. Hand made trophies for the winner of each class (100-150 budget, I think that is what some of the ones we have got this year cost).

Can someone help me out here, can I get $2 for the group? Would that fit a $10 entry fee for ams with no disc?

 

[DiscFifty]

I think Steve's comment on older players and trophies went beyond disc golf stuff, to stuff in general.

Many older players have homes full of stuff---trophies or photos or travel keepsakes or kids' awards or trinket gifts or whatever. A C-tier trophy is just going to add to the clutter.....or the garbage can. Even some newbie old players.

But of course Ru4por's right, it's very individualistic, and there'll be others who treasure them.

I also think it also boils down to the quality of the trophy. I don't know how it is in other areas, but in the DFW area we have a plethora of "trophies" ranging from simple printed posters in a frame to very high quality trophies. yah...I don't care for the cheaper end anymore, but if there's an event with a very nice looking trophy up for grabs, I'll take that any day over winning merch vouchers. But...unfortunately due to the varying tournament costs around here, I have to weigh everything out. 35.00 or so for trophy only sounds fine, but when the td sets the cost at 60-125 for a tournament I have to take into consideration if there's also merch payout available.

 

[DavidSauls]

So, I've helped out with a tournament or two, but really just get this, carry that, work the disc bins at payout. Played in several as well.

I'm kicking around the idea of being a TD for one next year at my home course, and the concept of a cheap, trophy only event is appealing. Can anyone help elaborate on how this works out? My thought is a C Tier obviously, 1 day, 2 round event. I'd ideally like to keep the player cost pretty small. I'm thinking a 1 Disc player pack, maybe none. A Single winner's trophy for each division. There is also the sanctioning fee and insurance certificate (we are required to get this). It would also be part of a non-profit group, and I would like $2 of each entry to go to it. Hand made trophies for the winner of each class (100-150 budget, I think that is what some of the ones we have got this year cost).

Can someone help me out here, can I get $2 for the group? Would that fit a $10 entry fee for ams with no disc?

I'm not sure if this fits your plans, but the PDGA has a Competition Endowment program for raising money for charity---but it has to be a certified charity, and I think a minimum of 25% of entries go to the charity. No per-player fees, non-membership fees can be waived or donated to the charity. Something like that; check PDGA for details.

Otherwise, the formula is that you can deduct per-player fees and greens fees from the entries, and then 85% of what's left has to go back to the players in prizes and/or players packs, in whatever combination you choose. So if your players pack almost the cost of entry, you can be trophy-only.

 

[biscoe]

I also think it also boils down to the quality of the trophy. I don't know how it is in other areas, but in the DFW area we have a plethora of "trophies" ranging from simple printed posters in a frame to very high quality trophies. yah...I don't care for the cheaper end anymore, but if there's an event with a very nice looking trophy up for grabs, I'll take that any day over winning merch vouchers. But...unfortunately due to the varying tournament costs around here, I have to weigh everything out. 35.00 or so for trophy only sounds fine, but when the td sets the cost at 60-125 for a tournament I have to take into consideration if there's also merch payout available.

For the ones I run at $10 I try to do unique trophies but not necessarily particularly nice ones. For the Betty Queen Open I did cheapo Beauty Queen pageant trophies, for the Golden Horseshoe Open I bought horseshoes and spraypainted them metallic gold. Both were well received. In general I think people just want to see that a little thought went into trophies and they don't worry too much about the expense.

 

[ThunderEagle]

I'm not sure if this fits your plans, but the PDGA has a Competition Endowment program for raising money for charity---but it has to be a certified charity, and I think a minimum of 25% of entries go to the charity. No per-player fees, non-membership fees can be waived or donated to the charity. Something like that; check PDGA for details.

Otherwise, the formula is that you can deduct per-player fees and greens fees from the entries, and then 85% of what's left has to go back to the players in prizes and/or players packs, in whatever combination you choose. So if your players pack almost the cost of entry, you can be trophy-only.

The full on Charity event wasn't really what I was going for, but might be the only option.

So the sanctioning and insurance certificate you cannot put in the entry fee since those are not per player?

 

[DavidSauls]

The full on Charity event wasn't really what I was going for, but might be the only option.

So the sanctioning and insurance certificate you cannot put in the entry fee since those are not per player?

That's my understanding.

The charity thing is just an option, which may or may not fit. In my neighborhood trophy-only isn't common, but where it's been done and been successful, often it was a charity.

Our tournament is a charity team-play event, with 50% donated and 50% to prizes (and a low $30 entry for a 2-day event). We don't do players packs at all---if anybody asks, we tell them their players pack went to The Children's Heart Foundation, and they seem OK with it. But of course we don't know if they're happy about it, or just tolerant because they like the course, or the team play format.

 

[ThunderEagle]

That is interesting. I *think* there could be a market in this area for AM Trophy Only events that are cheaper. Get a trophy, don't get more plastic that you probably don't want, and get some round ratings. Then, not get 1st place in a large MA3 or MA2 field and now need to pick out 150 worth of discs that you either already own, or have at least tried in the past, so you end up getting discs for friends, and backups for your current bag.

I know some who just get random discs and then put them in their clubs bins, or use as CTP prizes, etc.

But, to follow the money, "Merch" is where all the money is made at a tournament, and the manufacturers want to keep selling product, and this is a great way to move discs, not to mention payout tournaments is a way to get money into the pro side from the AMs. You want to stir up the pot, lets start the discussion about Amateur payouts and that they should move toward more trophy only events.

 

[philstine]

For the ones I run at $10 I try to do unique trophies but not necessarily particularly nice ones. For the Betty Queen Open I did cheapo Beauty Queen pageant trophies, for the Golden Horseshoe Open I bought horseshoes and spraypainted them metallic gold. Both were well received. In general I think people just want to see that a little thought went into trophies and they don't worry too much about the expense.

Ever thought about spray lacquering a cow pie and awarding it to the team that finishes last in the VTI?

 

[biscoe]

Ever thought about spray lacquering a cow pie and awarding it to the team that finishes last in the VTI?

No but I have considered a frozen cow pie distance contest at a winter event.

 

[brutalbrutus]

They had 70 show up for a masters and above only event in Dayton, OH yesterday. Including a Yeti sighting...

 

[Jay Dub]

They had 70 show up for a masters and above only event in Dayton, OH yesterday. Including a Yeti sighting...

1st place trophies for all divisions was a walking cane. Nice trophy without going overboard. :thmbup:

 

[DavidSauls]

Our tournament is a charity team-play event, with 50% donated and 50% to prizes (and a low $30 entry for a 2-day event). We don't do players packs at all---if anybody asks, we tell them their players pack went to The Children's Heart Foundation, and they seem OK with it. But of course we don't know if they're happy about it, or just tolerant because they like the course, or the team play format.

Well, we just filled, with a waiting list, in 79 minutes. So, with the right circumstances, it's at least possible to get people to play without giving them bunch of stuff.