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Hey newbie reviewers, it's not the course, its you!

scarpfish

Resident Grouch
Gold level trusted reviewer
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
8,158
Location
Brownbackistan
Occasionally we like to bitch about some of the stuff we see in reviews, and one of the things that gets me is when some obviously new player takes to the review console to bash a course that gave them a hard time like doing so is going to give them some sense of delicious revenge. The great part of course, is when they pretty much spend the context of the review pretty much devaluing their own argument, and exposing the fact that their difficulties were due to operator error, not any particular challenge the course presented.

Now I can appreciate a reviewer that breaks with the pack and maybe points out some flaws in a course that others hadn't mentioned because everyone else was trying to glorify their not so exceptional home course (another pet peeve of mine), but these people who are essentially reviewing their lack of game and not the course they are playing, are not doing the community, or themselves any favors by writing these little rant fests.

So may I suggest some guidelines for you new folks. You have not honed your skills yet. Should you stick with disc golf, things in this game are going to open up for you over the next year, next two years, next five years, when you travel to other places to play, when you play your first competitive event. When that happens, your perspective is going to change on what you like or don't like as far as course design goes, and that perspective is going to have substance to it. Why not save your opinion for then?

Might I suggest a guideline (and not a hard set rule) that you get a year of experience under your belt, perhaps 1000 played holes, perhaps 10 different courses, and some play time with more experienced players before you start submitting reviews. No one needs to know that you're a wuss now. We were are there once. Some of us after more than a decade of play still are. We learned in eventual time that it's not the course's fault and we don't use the DGCR review feature to exact petty vengeance.
 
So only super experienced players opinion should matter? What if you're a newbie, I bet a new players review is going to be a lot more relevant for a newb than the review of a 1000 rated veteran
 
So only super experienced players opinion should matter? What if you're a newbie, I bet a new players review is going to be a lot more relevant for a newb than the review of a 1000 rated veteran

Yeah, that's totally what he saying. :rolleyes:

He suggests 10 courses played, or 1000 holes (56 rounds), and you equate that to super experienced 1000 rated players.
 
So only super experienced players opinion should matter? What if you're a newbie, I bet a new players review is going to be a lot more relevant for a newb than the review of a 1000 rated veteran
Can you learn to read from someone who is nearly illiterate themselves?

And this has nothing to do with player ratings. There are plenty of qualified sub 850 rated people on here who have gotten over their complex with a few trees being in the way, even if they're still hitting them.
 
As long as I know it's a newbie writing the review---and of course, we know, it's pretty obvious, Scarpfish wouldn't have started this thread if it wasn't---it's fine with me. It tells me what the course looks like from a newbie's perspective, and I can take that with as many grains of salt as required.
 
Hey Chuck, can you come up with a formula for reviewer ratings?

I need to know if I'm reading a rec review or Am1.

All reviewers are Ams, right? Has anyone accepted cash for their reviews?
 
The idea that anyone, even a new player, would want an ineffectual and biased review of anything makes no sense at all... think about it...

The OP makes a lot of sense... his ideas are just suggestions but a good starting place... see a few courses (he suggests 10) first, play more than just a few times (was it 56 rounds he suggested?)... that is all really sound advice.

it isn't an insult to say to someone that they don't understand something yet... we all go through being new at something... I for one want to learn from people who have experience.

Good idea grouch!
 
I agree that well written reviews by new/less experienced players can be very useful, but you have to have an idea of context and it has to be well written.

My reviews have improved a lot since my early ones, and if you listen and keep writing you will improve, but as others have said, bashing or praising a course without perspective or details is hardly helpful.
 
Hey Chuck, can you come up with a formula for reviewer ratings?

I need to know if I'm reading a rec review or Am1.

All reviewers are Ams, right? Has anyone accepted cash for their reviews?

No cash, but I fully expect the ladies to go crazy for me once I hit that Diamond status.

Also, the reason most newbie reviews aren't all that great is because of experience (as stated above). If you've only played a few courses, can you really know if a course is good or not?
 
It would be helpful for there to be a category in the review that shows the reviewer's skill level, to put some context to the review.

One of the hardest courses in western Canada is called "easy" in a review by an obvious pro, which would be misleading to a novice/rec/intermediate player who wouldn't be able to get close to par on the course.

In my reviews now I try to talk about the difficulty in relation to an intermediate player, which is both my level of play and a good basis point of comparison I think.
 
Just looked back at my records, and found some interesting stats (well, interesting to me, and relevant to the thread, anyway): When I wrote my first review, I had been on DGCR for about a month, been playing right at 5 months, but had already logged 84 rounds (including 38 at the course in question), and had played in four tournaments locally. I'd played 12 different courses, but those included all three highly rated Cincinnati courses. I remember saying to myself I knew I was a noob, and courses deserved five to ten plays through before I even had a glimmer of what to write. I don't subscribe to that now, with some more experience, but thought it was a good idea, as a newer player.

I do think it's very helpful to indicate your background in some way in your review, so folks at different levels can take it with a grain of salt. I still do that, because I do not have the skill set of an Open player, and they should know that, as their results likely vary from mine! :eek:
 
It would be helpful for there to be a category in the review that shows the reviewer's skill level, to put some context to the review.

One of the hardest courses in western Canada is called "easy" in a review by an obvious pro, which would be misleading to a novice/rec/intermediate player who wouldn't be able to get close to par on the course.

In my reviews now I try to talk about the difficulty in relation to an intermediate player, which is both my level of play and a good basis point of comparison I think.

Only helpful when the reviewer starts talking about how tough or easy the course is---and doesn't say for whom he is measuring it.

I'm not sure how to declare skill level, in relation to reviews, anyway. The old guy who's played 300 courses in20 years and fallen to a 900 rating might have a different viewpoint than the young athlete who just took up the sport, and is already at 900 and climbing fast. And, Lord knows, we don't want to start asking people how far they throw.
 
.....besides, you already know how long someone's been playing, how many courses they've played, and how many reviews they've written. I think between that, and reading between the lines, you have a good idea of the reviewer's perspective.
 
I mean, do we get to throw out DFW reviews because they are all terrible at disc golf? Like, you must play 1000 holes outside of Texas before we trust that you know how good a course can really be?
 
We need to have skill level added to reviews. I don't review on the basis that the system is flawed. (((Or maybe I sit down to write a review and realize I can not be unbiased)or maybe I feel like I can't say a course is heavily wooded unless I play in other states that are actually heavily wooded) or maybe I'm lazy).

Also, drive by reviews that have 0 helpful reviews need to be deleted. And you can only review a course if you throw 300 ft and can do a cock push-up. Sonic, you're never gonna make it.
 

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