How far back

[DESTROYERONE]

I would like to know the ruling on the following. The tee pad is unsafe to use because of water, there are no flags to tee off from the side so the only place would I was wondering how far back I am allow to stand, because there is a long pad 50 feet back and the distance makes no difference to me. Could I stand on that pad?

 

[JC17393]

I would like to know the ruling on the following. The tee pad is unsafe to use because of water, there are no flags to tee off from the side so the only place would I was wondering how far back I am allow to stand, because there is a long pad 50 feet back and the distance makes no difference to me. Could I stand on that pad?

To take casual relief from the tee (due to the water), you'd have to take the first available lie on the line of play behind it. So no, you couldn't go back to the long tee unless the entire 50 feet between it and the short pad are flooded as well.

 

[biscoe]

Even if the entire 50 feet is flooded you don't get relief from it without penalty unless the TD has declared it so.

 

[Steve West]

Even if the entire 50 feet is flooded you don't get relief from it without penalty unless the TD has declared it so.

Really? Why not?

https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/80603

806.03 Casual Area
Last updated: Sunday, December 31, 2017 - 18:17

A. A casual area is casual water, or any area specifically designated as a casual area by the Director before the round. Casual water is any body of water that is in-bounds, and has not been explicitly declared by the Director to be in play.
B. To obtain relief from a casual area, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is farther from the target and is on the line of play, at the nearest point that provides relief (unless greater casual relief is announced by the Director).

 

[biscoe]

803.02 Relief from Obstacles- A player may obtain relief from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, people, or any item or area as designated by the Director.

Soooo... one more spot where the language in one place seemingly contradicts the language in another... le sigh. :\

 

[d11rok]

The onus is on the TD to say that the water is not casual and in fact in play, otherwise it is assumed casual.

Biscoe, I see your point. However, I would not consider casual water as an obstacle (unless of course directed by the TD), since it has its own mention elsewhere in the rules as pasted above. In addition, casual water doesn't provide an obstacle per se to taking a legal stance, whereas obstacles seem to be objects that are either artificially creating an obstacle and not part of the course itself ( vehicles, people, etc), or are potentially harmful (beehives, etc) .

 

[biscoe]

I would not consider it an obstacle either- however i would consider it an "area as designated by the Director". I agree that you guys are correct on the casual water. I would suggest however that for clarity 803.02 should mention it as well.

 

[Steve West]

I would not consider it an obstacle either- however i would consider it an "area as designated by the Director". I agree that you guys are correct on the casual water. I would suggest however that for clarity 803.02 should mention it as well.

Casual water does not need to be designated by the Director for the player to get relief. How could the director possibly know where every little puddle is?

I do think the rules would be more clear if "area" was taken out of the obstacles rule and moved into the Casual Area rule.

 

[JC17393]

Casual water does not need to be designated by the Director for the player to get relief. How could the director possibly know where every little puddle is?

I do think the rules would be more clear if "area" was taken out of the obstacles rule and moved into the Casual Area rule.

The bolded, for sure. Just another example of the Rules Committee re-writing the book in an attempt at clarity and doing just the opposite.

Like I'm sure biscoe did, I looked up the rule when I made the first response to the OP. Initially I was thrown because water was no longer mentioned in the rule pertaining to relief from casual obstacles (803.02)...was water no longer casual by default? Then, oh yeah, new section of the rule book to cover casual "areas" as something different than casual "obstacles" and standing water is now considered an area rather than an obstacle. Confusion could be avoided by completely separating the two by not including the word "area" in the rule regarding casual obstacles.

 

[JeremyKShort]

If it's a casual round, do what you want. If it's a tournament, the TD should be addressing something like this.

 

[DESTROYERONE]

how far back

Thank you all for the answers, if this was a tournament and I don't feel safe throwing from the pad I thought I was able to throw from behind it and if there is water there I would move back to where the water is no longer there. The reason I am asking is the front pad will flood and leave only the back tee to be use, and if I am just throwing I would throw from the walking path. or the back tee. Thank you again

 

[JC17393]

As others have suggested, if the tee is well known for flooding, a good TD will have an alternative plan for the tee if it is indeed underwater. But absent that good TD having a plan, your option under the rule is to play at the first available lie on the line of play behind the water (emphasizing on the line of play because depending on the shape of the fairway/location of the basket, that may not be directly behind the tee).

BTW, just to be clear, not feeling "safe" is not really an allowable reason to take casual relief. If the tee is just wet and slick but not underwater, the casual area/water relief wouldn't really apply. You'd have to make do with the tee as is...perhaps putting a towel down for traction or standing still instead of running up.