How much does weight affect stability?

[RHINESEL]

Lets say I only want to use 1 mold for my mid range game. Lets say that one mold is a Buzzz.

Given the following:

1. All new out of box discs
2. All the same plastic (ESP for arguments sake)

How much weight must be added or subtracted to have a balanced bag of overstable/stable/understable?

Since we need a constant, let's just say 169g is perfectly straight stable. What percentage of weight should the adjustment be?

5% would be 177.45g for overstable, 169g for stable (control), 160.55 for understable. Would this be enough to have a balanced mid range game without changing molds?

(Right now this is discussion for discussion's sake, but winter is getting long and my itch for new plastic is growing!)

 

[TxDiscGolfBoy]

My Rocs and my Rhynos are set up in the same fasion...

Rocs -- 180,175, 173(really beat up)
Rhyn.-- 175,171,165

I like the 5 gram difference (or close to) for my weights in discs that I have multiples of.

The way that I like to think of it...

Max -- length, power, and windy conditions
Mid. -- control and controlled distance in less wind
Light-- finesse and no wind conditions

I do, however, prefer to use the lighter discs when it's super cold, being that discs become more overstable in the cold...if the wind lets me.

 

[Marmoset]

Weight does not affect flight nearly as much as disc shape.
2 discs with a PLH difference of 0.5mm will fly much more different than 2 discs with identical PLH that are 25 grams apart.

I pick all my discs at the same weight but I vary the PLH and overall shape to suit the flightpath I want. This means I don't have to relearn different release points or grip strengths because I am throwing different weights.

That sounded kind of confusing; let me restate. I tried throwing different weights but my releases were all over the place. Now I buy all the same weights but vary the PLH and shape.

 

[Hellweg]

PLH?

 

[Dthunderchicken]

One thing I've observed is that a 5g difference in a slower disc is not as critical as it is in faster stuff. My 150 drivers are very different from my 155s. My mids and putters, not so much.

 

[Technohic]

I dont think you would affect it enough, but if you really wanted to try to mess with it, I would suggest more drastic weight differences. Use 150 for understable, the around mid 160 for stable, then max weight for overstable.

Personally, I use weight and mold so I have a 182 HPP Warrior (legal for now I guess) for overstable, a 172 Gold Core for stable and currently use a 161 pro Leopard for understable, but sometimes will use a 167 Stingray.

Thing with weight is it just changes the how fast you can get the disc and how wind will affect it. Most mids I would say you could out-speed anyway.

 

[Marmoset]

PLH?

Parting line height.
The thin line of flashing on the nose of the disc that witnesses the separation between the two mold halves.

 

[toothyfish]

While you may be able to vary the stability with weight, consider the impact on the throw itself. Trying to develop the technique over a range of 160-180 mids could be difficult. I try to keep all my mids about the same weight for throwing consitency. Same with fairways, and again with distance drivers.

 

[garublador]

One issue you'll have is that weight seems to affect HSS more than LSS, so a really light midrange will act more understable (and be a lot less forgiving when it comes to OAT) as far as high speed turn is concerned, but it will still fade at the end of its flight.

So, if you try to only mess with weights and use a disc that fades at the end of its flight (like a Roc or Wasp) you won't get one that's really straight with little fade. If you use a disc that doesn't fade much at the end of its flight (like a Buzzz) you won't have one that fades hard enough to be a good overstable mid.

 

[discspeed]

I've thrown a lot of Buzzzes and the differences in stability have not been consistent with respect to weight. Most of the most stable Buzzzes I've thrown have been around 176. I've had many heavier ones that were not as stable. You're better off getting some X Buzzzes of a similar weight and beating them it or supplement your Buzzz with a less stable mold. I use a Meteor with my Buzzz.

 

[mashnut]

I have much better luck having the same mold and weight, and varying plastic type or level of wear. My main midranges right now are a newish kc pro roc, a lightly used dx roc, and a pretty beat up dx roc and that covers just about every line I need.

 

[mzuleger]

Here's my theory on this:
One of the contributing factors in stability is how the weigh is dispersed over the disc (the more weight on the wing the more overstable the disc is), so the lighter the disc the lower the percentage of weight is located on the wing compared to the flight plate (you can only thin the flight plate so much).

I realize they use additives to get the weight up and down but I don't think that's a perfect science.

anyway, it's just a thought.

 

[Marmoset]

Here's my theory on this:
One of the contributing factors in stability is how the weigh is dispersed over the disc (the more weight on the wing the more overstable the disc is...

Agreed, to an extent. The more weight in the wing, the harder it will torque off at the end of the flight (fade). This is sometimes perceived as overstability.

...so the lighter the disc the lower the percentage of weight is located on the wing compared to the flight plate...

The ratios would still be the same. A 175 Champ firebird has 90% of its weight in the rim, 10% in the flight plate (I made these numbers up). This means 157.5 grams in the wing, 17.5 in the flight plate. A 150 Champ Firebird still has the 90/10 split but now there's only 135 in the wing, 15 in the flight plate.

This is why the lighter discs are easier to "spool up"... it takes less work to impart 1000 rpms on a 135 gram object than a 157.5 gram object.

This is my impression on the situation. I could be wrong, call me out if you notice something I overlooked.

 

[GLong]

A lighter disc is going to be less stable than a max weight disc in same mold/plastic. From what I have been told, discs are designed to be made at max weight, ie. what is shown on flight charts. The farther you get from max weight, the less true to the mold the disc will be.

Personally I stick pretty close to max weight for a couple reasons.

1. Easier to find - seems like max weight is always available for sale/trade
2. Wind - I dont change my bag at all if its super windy outside. I dont want to rely on a lighter disc that I cant reliably throw if its windy. This came straight from a local pro.
3. Overall consistency - my drivers are 171-175, mids are 176-180, putters 172-175. Everything I throw is essentially the same weight.

 

[Mr. Wick]

Agreed, to an extent. The more weight in the wing, the harder it will torque off at the end of the flight (fade). This is sometimes perceived as overstability.



The ratios would still be the same. A 175 Champ firebird has 90% of its weight in the rim, 10% in the flight plate (I made these numbers up). This means 157.5 grams in the wing, 17.5 in the flight plate. A 150 Champ Firebird still has the 90/10 split but now there's only 135 in the wing, 15 in the flight plate.

This is why the lighter discs are easier to "spool up"... it takes less work to impart 1000 rpms on a 135 gram object than a 157.5 gram object.

This is my impression on the situation. I could be wrong, call me out if you notice something I overlooked.

Right on. A lighter disc isn't going to be any more/less stable than a heavier one (unless it has gone through some sort of stabilization process like the light star bosses). The lighter disc is just easier to get to the speed required to flip it or make it fly straight etc that is why you notice a slight difference in the flight patterns.

 

[discspeed]

Right on. A lighter disc isn't going to be any more/less stable than a heavier one (unless it has gone through some sort of stabilization process like the light star bosses). The lighter disc is just easier to get to the speed required to flip it or make it fly straight etc that is why you notice a slight difference in the flight patterns.

I don't think Starlite Bosses are stabilized, that's just how they mold up in that plastic. I think the poster above has a good point in that discs are designed to fly when molded 170+ as that is what most of them are and is what pros use. However this doesn't always mean lighter ones are less stable as a rule. Sometimes they're more stable, have more or less glide, fade earlier but turn more at high speeds, etc. Its all about how the plastic packs into the mold and the final shape of the disc, however small those differences are.

 

[Marmoset]

A lighter disc is going to be less stable than a max weight disc in same mold/plastic.

I can see how people are misled into thinking this but it is not true.

From what I have been told, discs are designed to be made at max weight, ie. what is shown on flight charts. The farther you get from max weight, the less true to the mold the disc will be.

Hmmm, I have never heard this. Is this from a reliable source? It makes sense from at least one perspective.

Right on. A lighter disc isn't going to be any more/less stable than a heavier one (unless it has gone through some sort of stabilization process like the light star bosses). The lighter disc is just easier to get to the speed required to flip it or make it fly straight etc that is why you notice a slight difference in the flight patterns.

This statement appears to be in-line with disc physics.

 

[GLong]

The first two things I was told by two older local pros, guys that have been playing for 20+ years. One of them is an Innova team member and listed on their site, so I generally trust what he says.

as far as my first statement, it is true. sorry. a difference of a few grams wont make a huge difference, but theres no way you can say that a 150 class disc is going to fly the same as a max weight version in the same plastic. you might be able to get a similar flight line, but you also have to throw it with a lot more finesse. if you throw both exactly the same, theres no way they will fly the same way. and a lighter disc is not going to fly the same in the wind. thats undeniable.

and lighter discs always have more glide.

 

[craftsman]

The avenger 150 comes to mind

 

[waynewf]

In my opinion, I like keeping the weights of my discs fairly consistent and I'll throw different milds for the different flights I want to achieve.

For example, for my mids I use a Coyote (understable), Buzzz (stable), and Gator (overstable). I've messed with the weights a bit, but they're all about the same weight, with the Coyote being a bit heavier...by chance, not really choice.

I do the same with my drivers, I try to keep the weights similar and pick discs to cover all of my shots from over to understable and all my shot types, FH, BH, and OH....