[Innova] Innova Star Rat vs Lone Star Alpha Harpoon?

[The Mickstar]

Looking for a shallow, flat, non-beaded approach disc that can stand up to some forehand off-axis torque, but isn't crazy overstable. I prefer more of a mid rim feel than a putter rim feel for forehands. Smaller diameter is a bonus. I'm currently using a Discraft Jawbreaker Zone in this slot, but i play primarily in the woods and would prefer something in premium plastic.

Can anyone compare the Star Rat to the Alpha Harpoon?

Looking at the specs, the Harpoon has 3mm bigger diameter and a 1mm wider rim. I can't find a rim depth spec for the Harpoon, but I know it's shallow.

My main concerns are how the discs compare for OAT resistance, any noticeable difference in glide/distance potential, and stability (both turn & fade).

Of course, if there are other discs I should consider in this class that fit what I'm looking for, I'm all ears.

Thanks.

 

[EllEstar]

Note that Innova stopped making the Rat for like a year and then got it re-approved as Rat (New) back in late 2022 and started making them again shortly after. Speculation is that the original Rat mold broke and they remade it, maybe slightly different as the specs don't quite match up, but maybe it's just a rounding error by PDGA measurers. I'm first going to touch on the original Rat.

Harpoon is listed as 1.2cm depth with Rat as 1.4cm depth, but I feel like rim depth is one of the less accurate PDGA measurements in terms of how a disc feels.

I haven't thrown or held a Harpoon, but I've thrown Zones and Rats, so maybe you'll find my 2 cents valuable.

Star Rats are considerably less overstable than premium plastic Zones, but comparable to Jawbreakers out of the box. I would say they're around 0/2 when new. They're fairly torque resistant and easy to throw forehand, to me they felt very similar to maybe even slightly shallower than a zone. Calling them a 4 speed is a huge misnomer though, the rat has a rim width comparable to the Aviar, measuring about 0.95cm, which would make it a 2-3 speed usually, but Innova wanted it to compete with the Zone, so they gave it numbers that made it sound faster and more overstable than it is, with less overlap with the AviarX3.

To me, the Rat is a shallower AviarX3, very comparable flight, shape and obviously both in Star and sometimes other plastics. I think it's a great slightly overstable approach disc, especially for the forehand, but during the time it was OOP I filled that slot with other discs, so I'm not bagging it.

On the Rat (New): It's worth noting that when the Rat got re-approved the listed depth decreased by 0.1cm and the listed width increased by 0.1cm. This might be a measurement error; the rat has a very slightly curved inner rim (similar to a PA1, not as extreme as an Anode) which makes measuring it more challenging. However, it's also possible that Innova changed the mold and made it slightly faster to fit better with its given flight numbers. I think that can be given a little credence, especially since the measured rim width was already considerable larger than it is, so I feel like it increasing might be more likely to be a mold change than measurement error, but you never know.

 

[thatdirtykid]

I didn't like the rat much, and have not tried the harpoon so I am not going to be much help with that comparison.
I assume you want something more jawbreaker zone stability and premium zones were too overstable?
The prodigy A series really has the feels like a small diameter mid feel down. The A5 I think of as like a baby teebird stability 0, 2 type flight. Very much like a jawbreaker zone in premium.

 

[thatdirtykid]

Me not liking the rat doesn't mean it may not be the right option. I was wanting it to finish harder when I pushed it further. Didn't find it to be the Zone compliment in a Zone-_______-Berg approach setup I was working on. The feel is probably more in line with what you are wanting than the A5 Here's the A5 thread if you are keeping the options open. Looks like 400 or the one I liked 500 spectrum would be the stability you want.

 

[The Mickstar]

Me not liking the rat doesn't mean it may not be the right option. I was wanting it to finish harder when I pushed it further. Didn't find it to be the Zone compliment in a Zone-_______-Berg approach setup I was working on. The feel is probably more in line with what you are wanting than the A5 Here's the A5 thread if you are keeping the options open. Looks like 400 or the one I liked 500 spectrum would be the stability you want.

I think the A5 in 400 plastic may be a good option. I have almost very experience with Prodigy, so that would be fun.

How's the glide/distance of the A5 compared to a Jawbreaker Zone or Eclipse Envy?

 

[PastorofMuppets]

The Harpoon definitely fits the shallow and torque resistant categories. Although I don't bag one in favor of the Horny Toad, I've tested multiple in different plastics. For Lone Stars lineup the Putters and Mids tend to be more overstable in the baser plastic than the flight numbers indicate, and the premium plastics are pretty spot on to the flight numbers. If you are looking at premium plastics, Alpha will be your most overstable, followed by Bravo and then Glow. Special runs of Harpoons in Founders and Charlie exist but fly much like Alpha. If you want something that is super dumpy and crazy overstable the Victor 2 baseline Harpoon does not have glide and just wants to fade the entire flight. Closest to that is the Alpha Harpoon which has slightly more glide and slightly less hard fade but is still pretty overstable. I would compare the flight of the Harpoon in Alpha very closely to the Westside Harp, with a shallower depth rim.

 

[@CD-]

Looking for a shallow, flat, non-beaded approach disc that can stand up to some forehand off-axis torque, but isn't crazy overstable. I prefer more of a mid rim feel than a putter rim feel for forehands. Smaller diameter is a bonus. I'm currently using a Discraft Jawbreaker Zone in this slot, but i play primarily in the woods and would prefer something in premium plastic.

Can anyone compare the Star Rat to the Alpha Harpoon?

Looking at the specs, the Harpoon has 3mm bigger diameter and a 1mm wider rim. I can't find a rim depth spec for the Harpoon, but I know it's shallow.

My main concerns are how the discs compare for OAT resistance, any noticeable difference in glide/distance potential, and stability (both turn & fade).

Of course, if there are other discs I should consider in this class that fit what I'm looking for, I'm all ears.

Thanks.

Haven't thrown a LS Harpoon but the Rat has been pretty great for the purposes you describe (replace JB Zone). Brand new the Rat can be slightly stable. I'd put it at 3+/3/0/2 kind of flight. Stretches out to 3+/4/0/1 with some time to break it in. Depending how much OAT or power you are FHing with, the stock plastic Champ/Star Toro might be a better option. I think the Rat can be more of a finesse FH flight and makes for a good approach disc you can shape in the woods.

 

[Moose33]

Harpoon is a decent disc, feels like a Prodigy A2 but has much less stability. I didn't like it as much for forehands, but you could make it work.

The Rat was weird to me, it felt oddly chunky for a disc that isn't that deep but I haven't thrown the new mold.

A lot of locals have been throwing the A5 in this slot as like a Zone SS. I throw the A2 here but it's possibly more stable than you would want.

 

[thatdirtykid]

I think the A5 in 400 plastic may be a good option. I have almost very experience with Prodigy, so that would be fun.

How's the glide/distance of the A5 compared to a Jawbreaker Zone or Eclipse Envy?

In my fairly limited experience similar to the jawbreaker zone, maybe a touch less when fresh. I push an eclipse envy a bit further than either as they like to hook up a little later.

I haven't messed with jawbreaker zones much, they weren't available when I last was cycling that slot. I actually started throwing harps over zones cause there was a window of time that the zone was only ESP or Pro-D and the newer runs of ESP were kinda domey. And pro D was going through a bad phase...

 

[BrotherDave]

The Artemis fits this slot better than the Harpoon does imo. The Harpoon can be very neutral whereas the Artemis can handle some torque and has enough fade for predictable flicks.