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Interesting article about a future pro tour

Great article. No reason to think this could not
happen in ten years or so. I would love to see more
standardization in courses. 18 should be the standard. More
par 4's and 5's.
 
What I do not get is, it is the ams who are spending money on discs, baskets, apparel, and it is the local ams who take care of the courses, and invest their money in the sport, making tourneys, etc.

The pros want more 'out' of the deal, bigger purses, better conditions in courses and living conditions, etc. I am not saying pros do not put into the sport, of course they do. The problem is, they put in, expecting a return on their investment. What return do the ams get?

Sounds like the ams are set up to be left out, if you ask me.
 
What I do not get is, it is the ams who are spending money on discs, baskets, apparel, and it is the local ams who take care of the courses, and invest their money in the sport, making tourneys, etc.

The pros want more 'out' of the deal, bigger purses, better conditions in courses and living conditions, etc. I am not saying pros do not put into the sport, of course they do. The problem is, they put in, expecting a return on their investment. What return do the ams get?

Sounds like the ams are set up to be left out, if you ask me.

So your saying Pro's are Drama Queens that want everything for free...
No Way:popcorn:
 
Most non-team sports have one organization, where AMs and Pros compete against each with low entry fees and the only difference is who makes/takes cash or is sponsored. This breeds the best competition, not AMs playing for plastic. Pro Circuit Tennis tourneys are only $40 to enter provided you qualify for the event with prize payouts often up $100,000. Corporate sponsorship is where the majority of prize money comes from in all sports(as well as motivation to improve), other than poker. The question is how do you get corporate sponsorship in disc golf, so its not just playing high stakes disc golf that will burn out the players losing $250/tourney?

This is an interesting article, The Future of the Olympic Athlete, about getting more money in sport:
http://www.theraceclub.net/aqua-notes/the-future-of-the-olympic-athlete/
Along those lines you could have Nikko vs Feldy matches, or Climo vs the World to try and garner more attention, but problem is the audience for this would still so relatively low compared to other sports, its hard for any sponsors or TV to justify a ROI.



From USATF.com:
"Visa, a proud sponsor of USATF since 1988, has played a crucial role in athlete development in the sport of track and field. Visa began its support of track and field with the men's decathlon and women's pole vault events and since 2005 has entitled USATF's series of nationally televised, elite track & field events, proudly known as the VISA CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES. Formerly called the Golden Spike Tour, the VISA CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES gives U.S. athletes the opportunity to compete at home, to receive increased television and media coverage, and to be paid significant prize money based on performance. Athletes have the opportunity to participate in an athlete bonus program that culminates with awarding four athletes (two indoor and two outdoor) the title of Visa Champion and presenting each athlete with a $25,000 Visa Check for their exceptional performances. Through 2009, over $750,000 in prize money has assisted USA athletes in their training toward Olympic medals, World Championship titles, and status as the World's #1 Track & Field Team.

From an organizational perspective, USATF has been one of the greatest financial success stories in sport, more than doubling its overall revenues since 1997. The organization currently has an impressive line-up of sponsors that includes Visa, Nike, The Hershey Company, and 24 Hour Fitness, and suppliers that include Gill Athletics, St. Vincent Sports Performance, and Ludus Tours.

This surge in revenue has coincided with a hefty increase in the number of track meets broadcast on television and TV ratings. Our sport has upwards of 40 national TV broadcasts in any given year, and average Nielsen ratings for track and field broadcasts are higher than those of the NHL, the WNBA and Major League Soccer. In addition to securing national TV coverage of the Visa Championship Series, USA Track & Field has worked with ESPN, NBC, Fox Sports Net, and the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) to bring same-day, prime-time coverage of major international events to the American airwaves throughout the summer season."


I don't think following the ball golf organizational model is the best for disc golf.
Wiki:
"[Ball] Golf is one of the more lucrative sports in the world for both men and women, but it has a very different structure from other sports, especially team sports. Almost all (at least 95%) professional golfers make their main income as club or teaching professionals, rather than from competition. "Touring professionals", also known as "Tournament golfers" or "Pro golfers", who make their income from prize money and endorsements, are a small elite within the profession. The very best golfers make up to 8-figure incomes in U.S. dollars from tournament play alone; when endorsement income is taken into account, Tiger Woods is the highest earning sportsman in the world, according to Forbes magazine, retaining this status in 2010 even after a tumultuous year in which he failed to win a tournament and lost his marriage and many of his sponsors after his 2009 sex scandal.

For the less successful, trying to make a living from tournament golf can be precarious: tournaments have entry fees and the associated costs of travel and lodging, plus the hire of a caddy. Moreover, most tournaments have a "cut" after the second of four rounds, in which a minimum aggregate score is selected to eliminate roughly half the field, and advance the remaining to pairings for the final rounds. Only those players remaining after the cut earn any prize money at all. Thus, after costs are taken into account, lesser-known tournament golfers who are playing erratically (and do not have a steady income from endorsements) can be in dire financial straits in a bad year."
 
I'm very much an amateur, only just getting ready to play in my first couple tournaments, so keep that in mind.

I was really put off by the authors description of his dream course...

"This course is the cream of the crop with many elevated tees, manicured fairways, a 30 foot wide waterway, and two ponds. Small bushes, deep sand bunkers, and mounds guard the baskets and green areas. Half of the trees have been planted and all of the elevation changes are man made."

One of the reasons I like dg as much as I do is because it fits into the natural landscape as unobtrusively as it does, especially compared to country club golf, which the writer seems to believe dg should aspire to be.

I understand that the author owns a private course, and I love private courses, but the two I've played (Horning's and the Blockhouse) have amazing dg without the environmental damage associated with ball golf. Most existing private courses I've heard of also keep fees incredibly reasonable and successfully count on the dg community to self police as far as littering goes and to provide support with upkeep. Very different from Augusta National which apparently has a fence so high most locals have never even seen it.

I think the biggest reason dg has grown so much recently is that the spirit of the game is so welcoming to players of every income level, something country club golf is not. My normal pitch to a new player is, "Want to come play? I'll loan you some discs and if you like it you can buy a driver and putter for about 20 bucks. No, there isn't any greens fees."

As far as tournament pay out's for pro's goes, if an organizer raises entry fees and pays out a reasonable amount to the winners, it seems natural that the best players will be attracted to the biggest payouts and will play those tournaments. I'm not sure exactly how sponsorship works for pro disc golfers but I'd bet that they could negotiate with their sponsors to have entry fees and lodging provided for so they could play in the big money/high profile events. AM's who aren't sponsored but want a chance at a big pay out, or the opportunity to catch a sponsors eye, can play in the events if they fund it themselves. Lots of aspiring professional athletes spend plenty of personal money before they are officially professional. They are still AMs at this point, but aren't a detriment to their respected sports and shouldn't be treated as a nuisance since they are literally the future, not to mention providing much of the purse for the winners.

I guess the tone of the article was just off-putting to me in that it seemed to suggest that the natural next step for the sport is to go private/commercial and that is opposite of what attracted the disc golfers I know to the sport in the first place.
 
i really like the idea of an ADGA. why should the PDGA concern itself with accommodating players who are not professional pros? it spreads them too thin. 2 separate organizations will be better equipped to deal with the distinct issues each group needs addressing.

better amateur events and organization, better pro events and a better tour.

Simple answer: They need the Ams' money. There aren't enough Pros to sustain an organization like the PDGA.
 
I think the Ams in disc golf are quite spoiled. They throw a little money at a tourney and expect to get a players' pack with a disc, a shirt, minis and whatnot in it and then half the field payout in store cred. YOU'RE AMS. AMS DON'T PLAY FOR CASH/PRIZES. Ams should expect trophy for top 3 only and perhaps a Shirt. That's it.
 
YOU'RE AMS. AMS DON'T PLAY FOR CASH/PRIZES.

You had a good point until you wrote this.
Say, for instance, if ams put in 50% of the revenue for a tourney, and you just hand the top 3 some token trophies, but funnel 90% of the cash/prizes to the pros, I would expect that to be the last time the ams played that tourney.

Most TDs are conscious of this, and if 60% of the revenue comes from ams, then they would proportion the ams to receive the larger amount of cash/prizes as a whole. Correct proportion is the only fair way.

*At least concerning entry fees.
 
isn't that article several years old?

It at least precedes the last PDGA dues increase, because it's using old figures.

I read this "article" in an old old b/w magazine that used to circulate. I'd guess it's from 1990-1995.

Pipe dream to say the least.

Don't you all think that we're no closer to Davey Mac's dream today than when this was written tells us something. I've always found his vision for disc golf to be a little myopic. Innova having to turn this year's USDGC into a joke really shows the ugly reality of things.
 
You had a good point until you wrote this.
Say, for instance, if ams put in 50% of the revenue for a tourney, and you just hand the top 3 some token trophies, but funnel 90% of the cash/prizes to the pros, I would expect that to be the last time the ams played that tourney.

Most TDs are conscious of this, and if 60% of the revenue comes from ams, then they would proportion the ams to receive the larger amount of cash/prizes as a whole. Correct proportion is the only fair way.

*At least concerning entry fees.

This is the reality that we've evolved to.

Star Shark's point, I think, was that AMS are AMATEURS and, by definition, amateur athletes don't play for what they win (cash or merchandise).

Disc golf Ams aren't really Ams, Pros aren't really Pros either.
 
People Disc Golf is a HOBBY. Wait for the back lash I know, go get your torches!! The payouts are worse than they used to be and our coverage is GONE!! We had a better chance in the 80s/90s than we do now. Ill stick to my greasy paperwork and throw plastic on the weekends..
 
I like to proposed rule changes in the article;

Not having to look for another players disc. I kind of like this.

Getting relief after a tree penalty (if the 2m rule is in effect) so you can actually throw. This just makes sense.
 
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