Is Douglas Adam's SEP a PDGA problem?

[robdeforge]

Are the top pros clamoring for a solution? They have the most at stake. I find it interesting that it's in a player's interest to call violations on opponents in top-tier events---it might be worth some extra dollars in his pocket, at the end---and still they're reluctant.

what? that's like saying NBA fans can't complain about the awful reffing this year because they're not actually playing. there are many reasons that I, as a consumer of disc golf related media and merchandise, would like to see the rules properly enforced. who cares what the pros think? some of them don't even KNOW the rules!

 

[Turnipseed]

there are many reasons that I, as a consumer of disc golf related media and merchandise, would like to see the rules properly enforced.

Let's hear 'em chief. There had better be many.

 

[robdeforge]

Let's hear 'em chief. There had better be many.

• rules are rules. enforce them
• newer/less experienced players emulate the pros. if the pros are lax about the rules, these players will be too
• I enjoy watching fair competition, no matter the sport
• not calling obvious violations is not a good look for a sport that is always trying to be bigger and more professional
• cheating is lame
• cheaters are lame
• people that defend cheaters are lame
• because so many violations go uncalled, suddenly people that try to make correct calls are bad guys. that's lame as fudge
• they literally JUST revised the rulebook. if the problem was with the rules, and not enforcement, don't you think they would have changed up the rules significantly more?

not an exhaustive list, but the list formatting on these forums is exhaustingly weird

 

[Turnipseed]

• rules are rules. enforce them
• newer/less experienced players emulate the pros. if the pros are lax about the rules, these players will be too
• I enjoy watching fair competition, no matter the sport
• not calling obvious violations is not a good look for a sport that is always trying to be bigger and more professional
• cheating is lame
• cheaters are lame
• people that defend cheaters are lame
• because so many violations go uncalled, suddenly people that try to make correct calls are bad guys. that's lame as fudge
• they literally JUST revised the rulebook. if the problem was with the rules, and not enforcement, don't you think they would have changed up the rules significantly more?

not an exhaustive list, but the list formatting on these forums is exhaustingly weird

Rules are only rules, which are among the least important things out there.

Rules cannot guarantee fair play no matter the enforcement.

People who are afraid to uphold fair play are cowards, and if they need inspiration from a superior disc golfer to do the right thing then they are also imbeciles.

Cheating, cheaters, and the defense of cheaters are all pathetic. Happily cheating is far less common than rules violation, which happens on nearly every card of every tournament. However, cheating cannot be eliminated with any amount of legislation or enforcement.

Concern for the image of a non-entity such as "pro" disc golf is comically embarrassing.

There are no significant problems with the rules or rule-book, nor have there been. Changes in the rules are a product of a few rules hobbyists who enjoy philosophical tinkering and do not reflect any practical need for adjustment.

The game is breathtakingly simple, which makes cheating very easy to spot. Anyone can do it, with or without access to the rules. In competition, players should be expected to be intolerant of cheaters. If they are not, oh well, there are sleazeballs everywhere including in the so-called professional ranks. Expecting that they can be eliminated with better rules enforcement is to ignore everything you ought to have learned about humans.

 

[robdeforge]

....

so we're in agreement that rules should be enforced? cool!

 

[DavidSauls]

what? that's like saying NBA fans can't complain about the awful reffing this year because they're not actually playing. there are many reasons that I, as a consumer of disc golf related media and merchandise, would like to see the rules properly enforced. who cares what the pros think? some of them don't even KNOW the rules!

You seem to have inferred something that I didn't say. I didn't say nobody else can complain, or have an opinion, about it. Just that it's interesting that the very players who have the most to gain by making calls, don't.

 

[BrotherDave]

^Salient point, Mr. Sauls.

That's kind of what made RickyGate so egregious. Nikko's actually enforcing the rule and gets hung out to dry b/c Nybo and JohnE for whatever reason and Ricky forgot that he could second it on himself. The players seem to enforce rules like this as a last resort b/c they'd rather win via their play instead of their officiating ability. So any stance violation that's unintentional and doesn't confer an egregious advantage (Ricky had probably the worst upshot out of the group to spite his foot fault) gets looked the other way. It's probably the same reason officiating in most sports is notorious for no-calls, especially the NBA: Omission bias.

 

[robdeforge]

You seem to have inferred something that I didn't say. I didn't say nobody else can complain, or have an opinion, about it. Just that it's interesting that the very players who have the most to gain by making calls, don't.

yes yes you're merely pointing out an interesting point. for sure. there was nothing more you were trying to suggest, no sir :clap:

 

[F.Luke]

I blame it all on the "big lie" the PDGA gave the players this year.

 

[DavidSauls]

• rules are rules. enforce them
• newer/less experienced players emulate the pros. if the pros are lax about the rules, these players will be too
• I enjoy watching fair competition, no matter the sport
• not calling obvious violations is not a good look for a sport that is always trying to be bigger and more professional
• cheating is lame
• cheaters are lame
• people that defend cheaters are lame
• because so many violations go uncalled, suddenly people that try to make correct calls are bad guys. that's lame as fudge
• they literally JUST revised the rulebook. if the problem was with the rules, and not enforcement, don't you think they would have changed up the rules significantly more?

not an exhaustive list, but the list formatting on these forums is exhaustingly weird

The second point is particularly interesting.

Perhaps not directly. I doubt enough newer/less experienced players are following and emulating top pros to change, particular against the headwind of their local disc golf culture. But if the culture at the top changed, perhaps it might permeate down through the ranks---to the not-quite-at-the-top pros, to the locals pros, and on down through the tournament structure and even local leagues.

Or perhaps it wouldn't.

But it would be interesting to see what would happen, if the top pros set a higher standard.

 

[TAFL]

I'd be happy if a tournament official would walk with each group and assign infractions every time the players don't pay attention to another player's throw. Not call Ricky for his foot fault, just call Nybo and JohnE for not watching. And on the FPO side, call every player who turns her back when somebody else is putting. I suspect that would make for more attentive players and more calls on the slop.