Is this a Foot Fault?

[dashiellx]

At 12 minutes, Barry Schultz has a run up to his second throw. It looks to me like his plant foot actually lands on his marker disc. (tried getting this video to start at 12 minutes, but can't seem to get it to work)

 

[dashiellx]

Here's a direct link: http://youtu.be/Be_IxnTFWwY?t=12m0s

 

[Dave242]

Yes, its a foot fault. You should call in to the PDGA and see if you can get him DQ'd like was tried at the Masters with Tiger Woods.

 

[moose-mdg]

yes his foot is on the disc

 

[dashiellx]

Yes, its a foot fault. You should call in to the PDGA and see if you can get him DQ'd like was tried at the Masters with Tiger Woods.

LOL. I'm not that much of a douche. I was just curious.

It would be a one stroke penalty correct?

 

[Teebird Elvis]

Yes, definite foot fault.

 

[Dave242]

It looks like even if he would have been a half inch back and not touched his marker/disc, it would (might) have still been a foot fault as he appears to be too far right when you consider that the basket is around the corner to the right and the line of play is to the basket (or Mando) rather than down the fairway.

 

[Dave242]

It would be a one stroke penalty correct?

http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-...ic-rules-of-play/80204-throwing-from-a-stance

802.04 Throwing from a Stance

A player must choose the stance that will result in the least movement of any part of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course. Once a legal stance is taken, the player may not move an obstacle in any way in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to cause incidental movement of an obstacle.

When the disc is released, a player must:

Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the lie; and,

Have no supporting point in contact with the marker disc or any object (including the playing surface) closer to the target than the rear edge of the marker disc; and,

Have all supporting points in-bounds.
Supporting point contact with or beyond the marker disc is permitted after the disc is released, except when putting.

Putting: Any throw from within 10 meters of the target, as measured from the rear of the marker disc to the base of the target, is a putt. Supporting point contact closer to the target than the rear edge of the marker disc after the disc has been released is a stance violation. The player must demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the target.

A player shall receive a warning for the first stance violation in the round. Subsequent stance violations in the same round shall incur a one-throw penalty. Stance violations may not be called or seconded by the thrower.

Any throw made from an illegal stance is disregarded. A re-throw must be taken from the original lie, prior to subsequent play by others in the group.

Also of possible interest is this:

801.01 Application of the Rules

http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/801-general/80101-application-of-the-rules

These rules have been designed to promote fair play for all disc golfers. In using these rules, players shall apply the rule that most directly addresses the situation at hand. If any point in dispute is not covered by the rules, the decision shall be made in accordance with fairness. Often a logical extension of the closest existing rule or the principles embodied in these rules will provide guidance for determining fairness.

Players are expected to call a violation when one has clearly occurred. Calls must be made promptly.

If in doubt, players may attempt to consult an official. If none is available, players have the option of proceeding with provisional throws as described in 804.06.

A player shall not receive a warning for a rules violation unless the rule specifically provides for a warning. Warnings do not carry over from one round to the next round or to a playoff.

A rules violation that results in a warning may be called by any player in the group, or by an official. All players in the group shall be advised of the warning, and it shall be noted on the scorecard.

A rules violation that results in one or more penalty throws may be called by any player in the group, or by an official. If called by a player, it must then be seconded by another player in the group.

Unless otherwise stated, any determination made by the group as a whole shall be made by a majority of the group, or by an official.

A throw or an action that is subject to penalty under more than one rule shall be marked and/or penalized in accordance with the rule that results in the most penalty throws, or, among rules that call for an equal penalty, the rule that was first violated.

 

[scarpfish]

 

[Norcal]

Stance violations occur often in our sport although they are rarely called. The rule should either be enforced consistently or changed so that it isn't continually violated. As it stands, the integrity and credibility of our sport suffers.

 

[Grungedude42]

I dunno. I don't see many open fairway shots made where 1" forward or backward was the deciding factor. I agree people need to play by the rules, but saying stepping slightly on your marker or disc is "ruining the sport" is going a bit far in my book.

 

[Norcal]

Stance violations occur often in our sport although they are rarely called. The rule should either be enforced consistently or changed so that it isn't continually violated. As it stands, the integrity and credibility of our sport suffers.

I dunno. I don't see many open fairway shots made where 1" forward or backward was the deciding factor. I agree people need to play by the rules, but saying stepping slightly on your marker or disc is "ruining the sport" is going a bit far in my book.

No one said it's ruining the sport.

 

[Grungedude42]

No one said it's ruining the sport.

Must have misinterpreted what you meant by "the credibility of our sport suffers" then.

 

[Norcal]

The credibility of the sport suffers because the rules aren't enforced at the highest level. The integrity of the sport suffers because some people play by the rules while others don't. The problem is the rule is very difficult to enforce and many players, like yourself, don't believe that missing your mark by an inch or two confers an advantage.

 

[Kp0c]

I dunno. I don't see many open fairway shots made where 1" forward or backward was the deciding factor. I agree people need to play by the rules, but saying stepping slightly on your marker or disc is "ruining the sport" is going a bit far in my book.

Hitting 1" forward or backward isn't the problem. I agree that Barry didn't gain an advantage on that throw.

However, forcing yourself to think about that 1" difference to ensure you never make a foot fault while other players don't care and just land their foot somewhere close makes a big difference. I don't understand why people don't understand that.

 

[Teebird Elvis]

The credibility of the sport suffers because the rules aren't enforced at the highest level.

Agreed, the number of jump putters already airborne when releasing the disc is so great, it just becomes futile to call it. Plus, you get into a huge argument over it, and the rules are not followed, it just becomes mob mentality of whomever has the most friends in the group that day, or who is friends with the TD.

 

[Dave242]

However, forcing yourself to think about that 1" difference to ensure you never make a foot fault while other players don't care and just land their foot somewhere close makes a big difference. I don't understand why people don't understand that.

I do not think it is a "big difference" for most players, but it is indeed a difference to some degree.

Another aspect of knowing your footwork is that it can actually help you in many ways. Exhibit A is something I captured of Ken Climo:

 

[Dave242]

Agreed, the number of jump putters already airborne when releasing the disc is so great, it just becomes futile to call it. Plus, you get into a huge argument over it, and the rules are not followed, it just becomes mob mentality of whomever has the most friends in the group that day, or who is friends with the TD.

Do we have any video evidence of top Pros stance violations on jump putts? I have heard people talk about it, but have not seen clear video evidence yet.

 

[Teebird Elvis]

Do we have any video evidence of top Pros stance violations on jump putts? I have heard people talk about it, but have not seen clear video evidence yet.

My favorite example, you are taught to be in the air while jump putting. Watch the slow motion at 3:16, Paul is well into the air when he releases the disc.

It is a detriment to the game.

 

[Grungedude42]

Hitting 1" forward or backward isn't the problem. I agree that Barry didn't gain an advantage on that throw.

However, forcing yourself to think about that 1" difference to ensure you never make a foot fault while other players don't care and just land their foot somewhere close makes a big difference. I don't understand why people don't understand that.

No, I totally agree, it's a head game. I've adapted my game to where I'm 90% stand and deliver except when not on the pad. I just think it's contrary to the objective of the game when you don't throw a disc with your foot, and more things (like the wind, grip and angle) can affect the throw far more than 1-12" in the stance. Just seems like the foot foul headgame is more of an unintentional effect than it was meant to be. I worry about it almost more than my throw, and I have yet to ever be called for it myself.