Junior Worlds Filled in About One Minute

[ru4por]

I think points required should drastically go up, most got in by playing one event for the year, maybe raise the minimum points and require a certain number of events also. Also player rating is a hundred percent fair and I will tell little john to play better if his rating is not good enough. The pros do rating based tiers to allow the best to get in. Same should be with juniors. Literally 3-5 players are on the waitlist that are the favorites to win junior worlds.

my son is PDGA 46920

Raising points is not equitable. I live in an area where there are sanctioned events every weekend within an hour drive or so. Some live in areas that they would have to drive many hours to get to sanctioned events held a few times a year. So, I am not really in favor of restricting the players wanting to play worlds, by points. IMO.

I dare say that you might be willing to explain it to your child, but I don't see that as widely held. Or many would say they are cool with it, until it comes time.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I think the best way forward is to not have masters in the same town and include everybody. If it's not possible to have enough tees to hold all the juniors who want to play, then you go to giving higher ratings first dibs.

One of the cool things about worlds back in the old days was getting to play the same event and same tees as the immortals when you're just a regular Joe or Jane. (Climo beat me by 83 in the 2000 event out of 120 holes). If there's enough space, why not? It's a giant Frisbee Family gathering and I like that.

However, the sport has grown so much more since those days and it may no longer be feasible, at least if you're going to deem it the "world championship." It'll be interesting to see if and how they adjust to the sport exploding to the heights where it is now. They'd better.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Raising points is not equitable. I live in an area where there are sanctioned events every weekend within an hour drive or so. Some live in areas that they would have to drive many hours to get to sanctioned events held a few times a year. So, I am not really in favor of restricting the players wanting to play worlds, by points. IMO.

I dare say that you might be willing to explain it to your child, but I don't see that as widely held. Or many would say they are cool with it, until it comes time.

I agree with you on points. You're probably right that a lot of people would find it hard to explain to their child they didn't make it in to the World Championships based on merit, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. If people complained that their kid didn't make it in because of legitimate merit-based criteria (again, not points), they wouldn't have a leg to stand on logically.

I think it's way worse to have to explain to a kid they don't get to play for a championship because their parents' internet connection isn't good enough. That's where we are now. It's not cool.

 

[biscoe]

Already being addressed to a degree for 2023- 2023 junior worlds criteria. They will still be issuing way too many invites though until the points aspect is eliminated.

 

[_MTL_]

All 2022 majors were bid on in 2019 with the anticipation for them being in 2021. 2020 got canceled due to covid, 20 was pushed to 21 and 21 pushed to 22.

So we are dealing with a pre-covid plan that is being felt in a post-covid disc golf boom. Just something to keep in mind when questioning a lot of the logistics, caps and planning of this event.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Run annual state, province and country 3 or 4-round championships depending on age in May-early June. Those who are able to attend Worlds, should they qualify, would indicate that when registering for their Championship event. The invitees to attend the Worlds would be ranked and invited based on average round rating in their state/province/country championship, skipping over those who already indicated they can't or wouldn't attend.

The number of invitees would be set at the field sizes for the divisions planned for Worlds in late July-early August with maybe up to 20 extra placed on each waitlist in case those who qualified and said they could attend, decide they can't. Several to many state or country champs in their age/gender bracket would not make the invite list due to average round rating too low in their global pool. However, they would at least have a state, province or country title to their name and know what they need to do to make the invite list next year.

 

[ru4por]

Run annual state, province and country 3 or 4-round championships depending on age in May-early June. Those who are able to attend Worlds, should they qualify, would indicate that when registering for their Championship event. The invitees to attend the Worlds would be ranked and invited based on average round rating in their state/province/country championship, skipping over those who already indicated they can't or wouldn't attend.

The number of invitees would be set at the field sizes for the divisions planned for Worlds in late July-early August with maybe up to 20 extra placed on each waitlist in case those who qualified and said they could attend, decide they can't. Several to many state or country champs in their age/gender bracket would not make the invite list due to average round rating too low in their global pool. However, they would at least have a state, province or country title to their name and know what they need to do to make the invite list next year.

Pretty good idea, conceptually. The pragmatic application of getting the people (volunteers) to do this is not really achievable, IMO. Also, is it fair to potentially make me drive 10 hours to the UP to qualify? Across the state of Tx to qualify?

 

[ru4por]

I agree with you on points. You're probably right that a lot of people would find it hard to explain to their child they didn't make it in to the World Championships based on merit, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. If people complained that their kid didn't make it in because of legitimate merit-based criteria (again, not points), they wouldn't have a leg to stand on logically.

I think it's way worse to have to explain to a kid they don't get to play for a championship because their parents' internet connection isn't good enough. That's where we are now. It's not cool.

I am not sure this is true. I don't believe that connection speed is a real issue in today's world. I think prepared parents were ready, researched the ongoing issues and had the information filled out and ready to hit submit. This is not a new issue. All of the rebuttals to ideas presented here are not mine. These are simply rehashed discussions from threads from previous years.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Pretty good idea, conceptually. The pragmatic application of getting the people (volunteers) to do this is not really achievable, IMO. Also, is it fair to potentially make me drive 10 hours to the UP to qualify? Across the state of Tx to qualify?

What additional volunteers? The movers and shakers in each state already run championships in most cases. The Juniors wouldn't have to play in their own state championship if another one is closer, or their state won't host one. Compared to the current process, this provides a certainty of playing for a Championship to qualify and then a fair, merit-based process for the invite to Worlds.

 

[DavidSauls]

Making the event bigger is, at most, a band-aid. The player pool is growing so fast, we'd be back here in a few years.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I am not sure this is true. I don't believe that connection speed is a real issue in today's world. I think prepared parents were ready, researched the ongoing issues and had the information filled out and ready to hit submit. This is not a new issue. All of the rebuttals to ideas presented here are not mine. These are simply rehashed discussions from threads from previous years.

Well, I had no idea. I was only ready because of my propensity for nerdly obsessiveness. My son was never really ready for worlds until this year so I never bothered to read up and discover you had to be within 60 seconds of the initial registration time. I think to not change anything about this would be absurd, even if it rewards those who have knowledge of the situation and are prepared.

My parents in Indiana, had it been them who had to sign up somebody, would most certainly not have the internet connection to compete. But that's rural Indiana for you.

 

[ru4por]

What additional volunteers? The movers and shakers in each state already run championships in most cases. The Juniors wouldn't have to play in their own state championship if another one is closer, or their state won't host one. Compared to the current process, this provides a certainty of playing for a Championship to qualify and then a fair, merit-based process for the invite to Worlds.

Our state championships are a disaster. Poorly run, an old regime looking to get out, nobody to few new people looking to step up and help, an unsustainable, unfair berth process,one of the worst organizations in the state in charge of the tournaments....

Most states, this would force travel for a fair amount of the state. Placing extra vacation time, effort and money on the behalf of the players/parents. Not the case with all states, but really...just one unable to meet the criteria makes the system unfair. In some states, there may be several clubs looking to run this tournament.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Our state championships are a disaster. Poorly run, an old regime looking to get out, nobody to few new people looking to step up and help, an unsustainable, unfair berth process, one of the worst organizations in the state in charge of the tournaments....

Most states, this would force travel for a fair amount of the state. Placing extra vacation time, effort and money on the behalf of the players/parents. Not the case with all states, but really...just one unable to meet the criteria makes the system unfair. In some states, there may be several clubs looking to run this tournament.

If announced that this will be the way in say 2024, organizers would have time to plan how they would provide access in their area. New parents and TDs will arise to fill the void in your state if this is the way to get to Worlds. Just like other junior sports with national cross state competition during the school year, those families with kids likely to win titles or qualify will travel wherever needed. They may even save money by not having to play as many events to earn points as currently depending on tweaks to this proposal.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

First thing is that they need to enlarge the tournament and thus go to a 2 course setup. This year they could even do a play-in (top 8 make it - add an extra group after par 4's.) the day before the main event for those on waitlist, and have an alternate tourney for those that don't make it, so its not a completely wasted trip.

If that still is not enough to sate demand, then going forward they should go to local or sectional qualifying, and again depending on demand, also have a sectional qualifying for those that advance. I do think the top, proven players should get in automatically. Maybe 1st and 2nd place at any major junior tourneys get exemptions and also the 10-20 highest rated non-exempt players with a minimum number of rounds requirement. So in a field of 72 that would be 40 players or so, so the other 32 would come from the qualifiers. Ball golf has qualifying for all their major national amateur events which also includes exemptions for the top players. They would be a good model to follow.

I would more than happy to TD a qualifier in my area.

 

[ru4por]

If announced that this will be the way in say 2024, organizers would have time to plan how they would provide access in their area. New parents and TDs will arise to fill the void in your state if this is the way to get to Worlds. Just like other junior sports with national cross state competition during the school year, those families with kids likely to win titles or qualify will travel wherever needed. They may even save money by not having to play as many events to earn points as currently depending on tweaks to this proposal.

I wonder where that leaves PDGA sanctioned events? As a player, I have little interest in playing sanctioned over non sanctioned events, if points are not in play. As a TD, I suppose the insurance would still be the remaining attraction.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I wonder where that leaves PDGA sanctioned events? As a player, I have little interest in playing sanctioned over non-sanctioned events, if points are not in play. As a TD, I suppose the insurance would still be the remaining attraction.

They would still have to play enough rated rounds to be propagators, maybe more, and the true contenders would likely be double dipping and playing in am divisions for tougher competition, especially if the local area C-tiers weren't offering Junior divisions. The PDGA could work out the details if they decide to at least try this.

 

[biscoe]

I wonder where that leaves PDGA sanctioned events? As a player, I have little interest in playing sanctioned over non sanctioned events, if points are not in play. As a TD, I suppose the insurance would still be the remaining attraction.

Interesting. I could care less about points as I have no intention of ever going to Worlds again but would choose sanctioned over unsanctioned every day of the week with the exception of a couple of team match play events and leagues (which I feel should not be sanctioned to begin with). I tend to feel like the number of players chasing points is fairly small relative to the tournament playing population as a whole. This is probably a regional thing to some degree- not many "big" unsanctioned events remaining around here and they are generally things other than individual stroke play.

As a TD PDGA Live Scoring is a huge boon at this point in addition to insurance.

 

[DavidSauls]

Interesting. I could care less about points as I have no intention of ever going to Worlds again but would choose sanctioned over unsanctioned every day of the week with the exception of a couple of team match play events and leagues (which I feel should not be sanctioned to begin with). I tend to feel like the number of players chasing points is fairly small relative to the tournament playing population as a whole. This is probably a regional thing to some degree- not many "big" unsanctioned events remaining around here and they are generally things other than individual stroke play.

As a TD PDGA Live Scoring is a huge boon at this point in addition to insurance.

My experience too, with an exception when AmWorlds was to be held close by and a lot more locals were interested in playing. Otherwise, I never hear about points.

 

[robdeforge]

I don't believe that connection speed is a real issue in today's world.

Tell me you don't know anything about the availability of good internet in rural America without telling me you don't know anything about the availability of good internet in rural America

 

[biscoe]

Tell me you don't know anything about the availability of good internet in rural America without telling me you don't know anything about the availability of good internet in rural America

Amen. I live 65 miles from the supposed capital of the free world and have very limited options.