Leading with the elbow

[Kodachrome]

Exactly. The bend is more a product of turning while your arm is extended, not really an active "elbow you in the face" kind of deal.

 

[cdunlapb12]

I've felt this way for a while as well. I focused so hard on getting the elbow "smack" as people say when what I really needed to do was get the lever to collapse which happens center chest for me because of how long my arms are. I definitely max out at 400' with a good drive so I'm not an expert. But I agree with the right pec being slightly exaggerated.

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

I tend to do best when I think in terms of driving with my elbow. It's exactly like there's someone standing between me and my target and I'm going to elbow him hard in the solar plexus. I find that this causes my forearm, and thus my hand and disc, to trail behind the elbow in that all-important straight line with no rounding. When my elbow 'sticks' or reaches the point it can no longer go forward, my forearm is catapulted sideways around it. I'm not hitting 400', but I get good snap when I do this right.

 

[DanJon]

I remember ZJ saying something about thinking of pushing forward not reaching back and pulling forward.

Not sure how this factors in here exactly.

 

[sidewinder22]

So, tried it this morning and wow, what a difference! More distance effortlessly! And of course I relearned the the old mantra of slower is better. Once I locked in on the " secret" I tried to ramp up the power totally throwing me off. I kept my arm too stiff totally undoing the coiling factor and shortened my window for timing the thumb push. Slowed back down and got some distance back, but the lingering tension was working against me so took a break.

The actual angles will vary for everyone, and every speed and also the type/direction of throw. Often faster arm speed = less elbow lead. The common denominator is wide, narrow, wide angle and manipulating of the angles and weight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjxwiN8G4F0#t=4m15s

 

[ash81]

The actual angles will vary for everyone, and every speed and also the type/direction of throw. Often faster arm speed = less elbow lead. The common denominator is wide, narrow, wide angle and manipulating of the angles and weight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjxwiN8G4F0#t=4m15s

That drill is one that has helped, but confused me as well. It helped me really slow down and focus, but the thumb push, wrist turn I struggle with. First, I have a hard time telling if the water is really crashing back or not, and second I worry that I'm rolling my wrist under too much.

Also, by wide/narrow/wide I'm assuming you mean shoulder angle from start, midway, to openening up? Like it squeezing through the motion? And I imagine I don't want the angle to close past 90° right? That would make sense. Trying to keep my upper arm too rigid has I'll effects for sure. I just know that keeping my arm much wider than before has made a huge difference. Video from directly behind looks like I'm putting my arm straight out, but from the side looks like I'm reaching behind me still.

 

[cdunlapb12]

The wide rail definitely helped my distance. I think that's what SW22 is talking about. But it completely threw off my accuracy. Almost everything goes to the right now and I think it's because I'm going wide, narrow, sorta narrow. Instead of wide, narrow, wide. This makes me think the shoulder angles and turn has more to do with it than simply collapsing the arm and getting the elbow forward.....I think.

 

[sidewinder22]

That drill is one that has helped, but confused me as well. It helped me really slow down and focus, but the thumb push, wrist turn I struggle with. First, I have a hard time telling if the water is really crashing back or not, and second I worry that I'm rolling my wrist under too much.

Also, by wide/narrow/wide I'm assuming you mean shoulder angle from start, midway, to openening up? Like it squeezing through the motion? And I imagine I don't want the angle to close past 90° right? That would make sense. Trying to keep my upper arm too rigid has I'll effects for sure. I just know that keeping my arm much wider than before has made a huge difference. Video from directly behind looks like I'm putting my arm straight out, but from the side looks like I'm reaching behind me still.

Wide, narrow, wide can be the upper arm angle, but also the disc from the body. Reachback with the disc wide from your center/body, then narrow or close to the body as it passes your center/spine, then extension wide again at release/followthrough.

Your shoulder turn and throwing direction will vary the relative reachback position of the disc. If your shoulders are turned far like say Nikko, the disc will appear to be behind or around his body/rounding, but his upper arm angle is super wide. Also throwing a distance shot should be directed to the left(RHBH) and the wide angle will also take the disc to appear behind the body, as the straight line from reachback to hit is slightly right to left instead of a straight line from the tee to basket/target. Your aim/throwing line target is the apex of the flight, not the landing spot.

 

[RFrance]

I tried this this evening during a round and it worked pretty well. When I reach back I always have a bent elbow like everyone says you are supposed to. What I did different was to bend my elbow in a little bit more on the reach back. What this did was to "adjust my lever" so that when my hips turned and shoulders engaged to the closed position (90 degrees from the target) the disc automatically lined up with my right pec and elbow leading out more. Here's what happens. If you bend your elbow in more (decrease the angle between your forearm and bicep), it shortens the lever and moves the disc forward in the pull and the elbow out. If you bend your elbow less (increase the angle between your forearm and bicep), it lengthens the lever and the disc ends up at mid chest or left pec and the elbow won't go out as far. Minor adjustment without changing any of the other mechanics with good results.

 

[ash81]

What effect did you notice? I usually reach with my arm fully extended. That may be part of my problem and contribute to rounding because it locks in that original position.

 

[RFrance]

What I noticed most was that it was a smoother motion and I didn't have to think/worry about getting the elbow forward...it just happened naturally. Also, the timing was better because I didn't have to guide the disc to the right pec so getting the late acceleration with the hips was easier. What I will work on this afternoon is relaxing my arm. Without intending too, I concentrated on getting the bend and that ended up with a little muscle tension.

 

[RFrance]

I just did this for a good visual. If you are sitting at your computer in a swivel chair, swivel to the left (RHBH) as you would for the reach back (if you have a disk in your hand even better). Then swivel half way back (to where you are looking at your screen) and look down and see where your hand (disc) is at. If it is not at the right pec, bend your elbow in a little. Now repeat and see where your hand (disc) is. You should see it move to the right and your elbow move out more.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

If the elbow doesn't look as far forward as yours, then you're probably out of position. Get your elbow too far forward and then you're just pulling ahead with the shoulder, aka strong arming, no longer connected to the hips through the shoulders.

If you get into even just an okay position with your hips, the rest follows. You don't have to try too hard to pull through because your arm is going to fling itself away from you anyway. You're just helping it.

Just make sure your elbow isn't lagging behind your upper arm, effectively hugging yourself, and you'll be fine. When I come into the pec, I try to be right about at 90. It's a byproduct of the turn as I go from reachback to the position shown above. I'm not pulling or forcing it out front.

From all the instruction videos and such i have watched, it seems that elbow is already ahead before the shoulder turn begins, at least for the best throwers. This would make me think the real lever move is simply the elbow and then wrist, with much less leverage from upper arm. Coming from real golf i was trying to lead with the shoulder (as you need to keep your forward arm straight through contact) and going for a true full three lever motion (upper arm from shoulder, elbow, wrist). I have also struggled to throw anything above 300' consistently so maybe this is why. Or am i just confusing myself?

 

[drk_evns]

This would make me think the real lever move is simply the elbow and then wrist, with much less leverage from upper arm.

You're on the right track. Keep your shoulder angle at ~120 degrees and lock it there. Let the elbow and wrist swing somewhat freely. There's your whip.

The shoulder WILL still have some movement, but it will be because of your speed in the pivot forcing it back against your resistance. Does that make sense?

 

[ballgolfconvert]

You're on the right track. Keep your shoulder angle at ~120 degrees and lock it there. Let the elbow and wrist swing somewhat freely. There's your whip.

The shoulder WILL still have some movement, but it will be because of your speed in the pivot forcing it back against your resistance. Does that make sense?

Makes perfects sense. Thanks.

 

[Tex1503]

90 degree angles and how Elbows play a role.

https://youtu.be/8ZZsL0dS_Hc


For Tip #2: Best pro to watch use elbows to see and hit lines is James Conrad. Watch his warm up before each throw. As he follows through on his warm up swing his left elbow comes through and he peers down that line. That is the line his disc will travel down.