Maxing out 230ft - what to work on next?

[nashie]

First summer practicing with more thought. Throwing ~230ft (70m) consistently but not really improving. Only throwing from a stand-still for now.

The following clip shows two angles. Note that these two clips are from different throws but both shots are maxed-out 230ft throws. The disc in these clips is a Star Leopard if that means anything. Anything faster than that does not fly reliably for me yet.

What should I focus on next? All tips are appreciated!

Check the video here

 

[ChrisinFL]

My son and nephew are doing about same form and distance as you. I am a beginner - struggling now to get past 200 feet, so my advice is not worth much…. But, if you have your technique down - it has become consistent - maybe start to add one step, or walking (slow) x-step? Also, I had a Leopard Star, and I know the best answer is improve form/technique, but I got a Latitude 64 Diamond Retro Burst, and it immediately became my favorite disc. I threw it further and better than Leopard Star and Leopard3 on day one, and have since got 5 more Diamonds so I can practice with them more and have extras if I lose them. A little faster (8), with more glide (6), but a beginner friendly disc - you don't need arm speed 8 to make it fly well. I am not good enough to advise on your form, but others here are, and will. Anxious myself to see what they say.

 

[Brychanus]

First summer practicing with more thought. Throwing ~230ft (70m) consistently but not really improving. Only throwing from a stand-still for now.

The following clip shows two angles. Note that these two clips are from different throws but both shots are maxed-out 230ft throws. The disc in these clips is a Star Leopard if that means anything. Anything faster than that does not fly reliably for me yet.

What should I focus on next? All tips are appreciated!

Check the video here

March/heave/swing your arm back more like this:




Work through this:

 

[nashie]

Thanks for feedback Brychanus and ChrisinFL!

I found the Figure 8 drill very helpful. It helped me to get the timing right - or should I say try to get rid of the timing. I found my upper body to start rotating way too early so it was not driven by the "forced" hip rotation caused by weight shift.

Below you can see the current form. I think I have not seen any major improvements in distance yet although I clearly feel I need to put way less effort to get the same distances as I did before.

 

[sidewinder22]

Get into more athletic stance/posture like shoveling or lumberjack or battering ram and swing your lead shoulder lower.

 

[nashie]

Thanks for the suggestions!

I think the Battering Ram drill helped me significantly. It plus some light hammer training helped me to feel that I was throwing a heavy object instead of a light disc. Also, I think Brychanus' tips opened up for me a bit delayed. The Bow and Arrow video guided me to get my lead shoulder lower.

Good throws go now around 295ft (90m) so there has been a slight improvement distance-wise. I think the bigger change is how much I need to use effort to do so - that is a lot lower now.

Some of my own observations just for diary purposes (not sure yet how relevant they are):

• I sometimes feel the force of the disc in my fingers when I get a good rip. I guess this is now the feeling of snap. What I have noticed is that I need to grip a bit harder at the end of the throw. In my best throws, I have felt increasing pressure on my grip. I think it feels a bit similar to how a tennis racket is held just before it hits the ball. For some reason, this did not come automatically for me with the disc.
• Moving my back leg down a bit (so making the "box" my feet form a bit more square) clearly improved my throw. It feels I can leverage the back leg a lot better.
• In many pro-form videos I have seen I have noticed they are clearly leaning backward (away from the throw direction) when the disc is in the "power pocket". If you check mine, I'm slightly leaning forward. Not sure how to practice this yet.

 

[Brychanus]

Thanks for the suggestions!

I think the Battering Ram drill helped me significantly. It plus some light hammer training helped me to feel that I was throwing a heavy object instead of a light disc. Also, I think Brychanus' tips opened up for me a bit delayed. The Bow and Arrow video guided me to get my lead shoulder lower.

Good throws go now around 295ft (90m) so there has been a slight improvement distance-wise. I think the bigger change is how much I need to use effort to do so - that is a lot lower now.

Some of my own observations just for diary purposes (not sure yet how relevant they are):

• I sometimes feel the force of the disc in my fingers when I get a good rip. I guess this is now the feeling of snap. What I have noticed is that I need to grip a bit harder at the end of the throw. In my best throws, I have felt increasing pressure on my grip. I think it feels a bit similar to how a tennis racket is held just before it hits the ball. For some reason, this did not come automatically for me with the disc.
• Moving my back leg down a bit (so making the "box" my feet form a bit more square) clearly improved my throw. It feels I can leverage the back leg a lot better.
• In many pro-form videos I have seen I have noticed they are clearly leaning backward (away from the throw direction) when the disc is in the "power pocket". If you check mine, I'm slightly leaning forward. Not sure how to practice this yet.

I think you should work on how you coil into the backswing next. You're leaning and scrunching over your rear leg rather than getting balanced on it anchoring the backswing like a pitcher.

Work on this back and forth with a lever like a club and then a disc:


The backswing in standstills - load it up somewhere around belly button for now, and see if you can achieve that same fully coiled feeling into and over the rear leg. You should feel like you're "walking" it back more, and your weight should be shifting toward the target while the backswing is still coiling.

 

[nashie]

The Swing Drill itself felt very natural for me quite quickly. However, in standstills, I struggle to get the same feeling of balancing on the rear leg. I think it has to do with how my knees are more bent in standstill throws while trying to keep an athletic posture.

However, here is the current progress:

 

[Brychanus]

Ideally should be able to throw with more or less bend in the knees.

Sidewinder is still balanced onto the rear leg coiling back longer and "drifting" his body mass all the way toward the target balanced on that rear leg until he "drops" into the plant. Notice how much "longer" his throw is, which is all distance over which the throw can accelerate. Your posture when you land also puts your plant knee and hip at risk.




Might go to Hershyzer and Door Frame Drills next.

 

[sidewinder22]

1. If you are going to shift your hips that much, then you need to stride your front foot/knee to catch yourself. Your front hip is landing/diving way ahead of your knee.

2. Door Frame Drill - note how my front hip is tilted higher below, pulled back toward door frame, so my shoulder is pulled/loaded much further back behind my body. Your rear hip needs to move/drop forward underneath the front hip, so door frame pulls front hip up until just before you plant.

3. Behind view - note how my shoulder swings over my knee and knee is pushed back behind toes. Your knee is leaking out over your toes and your shoulder is swinging behind your knee.

 

[nashie]

Thanks for both of your comments!

I focused on drills during the week. I can see some improvement, especially in the behind view. However, in the side view, I see that I still need to lower that rear hip. Now my hips seem to be quite leveled compared to last week's clips. Not sure what would be a good way to get closer to sidewinder's posture below.



In the behind view, the rear foot now seems to lift from the ground (more apparent on the video due to the patch of grass) but maybe a bit later than on sidewinder's throw.



Also added a video of me doing a Hershyzer drill throw.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks like you are still trying to push off rear leg too late - after planting front foot and going into anterior pelvic tilt and spine extension so your chest is out in the way and have to swing around your center. Note how my chest/head is more over the disc in the power pocket so the disc can swing through closer to my center and then redirect back out away from it.

 

[nashie]

Looks like you are still trying to push off rear leg too late - after planting front foot and going into anterior pelvic tilt and spine extension so your chest is out in the way and have to swing around your center. Note how my chest/head is more over the disc in the power pocket so the disc can swing through closer to my center and then redirect back out away from it.

Really good insight, thank you! It is fascinating how a simple thing suddenly becomes so apparent when someone with more knowledge points it out.

Do you think the anterior pelvic tilt is caused by the delayed push from the rear leg? So should I focus on fixing the weight shift issue or maybe pay more attention to my pelvic tilt like it is described in the video?

 

[sidewinder22]

I think you are already in APT when you setup. The late push just makes it worse.

 

[nashie]

Winter is over and back to the grind.

During winter I mostly did some drills (Door Frame, Hershyzer Wall Drill).

Recently I have been mentally focused on my hip movement (due to the weight shift) and getting all my weight on the back leg when reaching back. I have tried to fix the APT by mentally focusing on that even before the throw.

 

[Brychanus]

I'd probably go right to Double Dragon next. You need to feel more like the whole backswing is "levitating" you going back, coiling into the rear leg with balance, then you are drifting and dropping into the plant going forward.

 

[sidewinder22]

Step/walk back into backswing.

Elephant Walk Drill

Drill to help make weightshift and swinging as easy as walking. This drill really helps on uphill tees or lies like this hole where walking targetward makes it hard to get forward balanced on front leg. If you are walking sideways along with the hill then it is easier to shift forward and...

www.dgcoursereview.com

 

[nashie]

Added Double Dragon and Elephant Walk drills into my daily repertoire. I think I understand what Brychanus meant by "levitating". I'm not there yet but I certainly feel it when doing Double Dragon drills.

Here are a couple of clips; one where I do Elephant Walk into a throw and one regular standstill throw.





Now when looking back at these videos, I see that my reach back is now quite back and up. This is probably due to the Elephant Walk drill. It is probably not optimal but I feel my releases are a lot more nose down this way. I have had an issue where most of my throws are not nose down and very hyzer-y. When my reach back is lower, my shots tend to go nose up. If someone has tips how could I work on release angles, I appreciate that as well.

 

[Brychanus]

Higher backswing is fine as long as the rest of the move is in dynamic balance & good posture. Before you worry about that:

Suggest you keep working from Elephant walk drill.

1. Be more patient swinging each way. Make your arm feel as heavy as possible. Wait until your arm stretches you all the way out at the peak of the backswing and then the swing before you swing back the other way.

2. Get more planted and heavier into the ground. Feel the mass of your body towing your arm in each direction. Watch SW do it again in his video - see how he even lets his body sink or "sit" a little into the move going each way? That's so he can "lead with the mAss".