(More) League Advice Needed

[jrawk]

Nemmers,

We run a multi-division non-pdga league here in Southern Maryland that pays out cash every week, and trophy for overall league winners.

Granted, there's nobody rated higher than 950, but to the locals here those 950 rated players are seen as the local "Pros".

We do a $5 buy in for both Adv and Int. And we offer a free Rec division. Everybody has the option of paying into the ace pot.

Our Advanced division pulls the most players (6-10 per night). And intermediate is generally the same (6-10). The people that play rec are spotty and generally don't participate back to back weeks. However, the Rec players that do usually decide to move up to Int a handful of weeks in when they realize everybody has good and bad nights, and yes even they can compete for cash.

Scores are tracked, so when Int players start scoring similarly to Adv players they begin to ask whether they should move up. And we generally let them choose. They almost always decide to move up, because they want to continue challenging themselves. And the already Adv players are happy to have more competition.

 

[greg_b_4]

First off I have just started creating a club so this is very interesting to me as I want to start running leagues early spring. Secondly as a low advanced/high intermediate player I realize that I am never gonna cash out in leagues or in tournaments. But I am more than happy to pay my entry if there are other ways to "win". ie CTP, ace pools, longest putt ect. Anyone no matter the skill level can luck into these prizes. So I think as long as the other way to win exist I see no problem in either one division leagues or split. Also as others have said I think disc golfers for the most part want a challenge and will play where they are challenged.

 

[scarpfish]

To me leagues, sanctioned or not, shouldn't be about the money, they should be about people getting together and sharing the joys of a recreational activity they're into. We just charge a nominal entry and pay out winners to add a little spice to the affair. The money, won or lost is usually peanuts. People concerned with payouts and all that jazz should concentrate their efforts on tournaments.

One of our local leagues started with a single division. Then we moved to two divisions and payed cash to both. Then we started acquiring plastic. Then we made the lower division compete for funny money. Some folks moved up when that happened, and some didn't. Really, I don't think too many people care if they win their division or not. They just want to get away from the routines and drama of their daily lives for a couple of hours.

 

[Wook1]

This thread is really interesting and makes me appreciate the league I play in at Tyler state park. 20 weeks total and you need to play at least 13 for pay out, which is at the end of the 20 weeks and every player to hit 13 weeks will receive some kind of payout. This past summer we had 4 divisions I believe, these were determined by your first 6 round average. We also do ace pot every week and a 50/50 drawing every 4 weeks. Course layout is the same for 4 weeks, first we play 1-9 from the longs and 10-18 from shorts for 2 weeks and then alternate the next two weeks 1-9 from shorts 10-18 longs. There's a few things I like about this, mainly we have a running score board online so it really does show progress and makes people want to shoot lower scores. An other is the ability to wipe your bad rounds after playing the necessary 13.

 

[whentherainscome]

As a league admin, you're there to facilitate the system you set up. You made two separate pools that win cash prizes. The pool with more players will have more cash. It's dry logic.

If you really want to cheat the ams, then at least use the plastic scheme. You're paying yourself to run the league so take the time to keep a "bank" for folks who only win small amounts, just make them cash in for plastic before the end of the season. I've known some people to bank their winnings all the way to a basket.

I will also mention that I run a winter league and I take no money from my player's entry fees. It all comes back to them with some league swag for everyone, overall winners get the lower tag #'s. I also cut out a chunk of the entry fees and donate it to improving another of our local courses. I hit the ace pool last week and plan on donating that and some of my own $$ at a hole sponsor level. #supporthesport #actlocally :thmbup:

 

[WhiteyBear]

If you really want to cheat the ams, then at least use the plastic scheme. You're paying yourself to run the league so take the time to keep a "bank" for folks who only win small amounts, just make them cash in for plastic before the end of the season. I've known some people to bank their winnings all the way to a basket.

Cheating AMs by paying out in plastic? Interesting point of view there. I guess you are not a fan of any sanctioned tournament at all.

 

[Timeetyo]

To me leagues, sanctioned or not, shouldn't be about the money, they should be about people getting together and sharing the joys of a recreational activity they're into. We just charge a nominal entry and pay out winners to add a little spice to the affair. The money, won or lost is usually peanuts. People concerned with payouts and all that jazz should concentrate their efforts on tournaments.

One of our local leagues started with a single division. Then we moved to two divisions and payed cash to both. Then we started acquiring plastic. Then we made the lower division compete for funny money. Some folks moved up when that happened, and some didn't. Really, I don't think too many people care if they win their division or not. They just want to get away from the routines and drama of their daily lives for a couple of hours.

I don't think this is the case for most people. I feel that for most people, they want to feel like they can cash if they play well on a given day. That is certainly the case for me. Right now we are playing winter doubles for leagues, with no divisions. I am not good enough to expect to win (unless I "win" the chip draw), but assuming an average partner I can expect to cash if we play well...and that is all I expect. This is made possible as strokes are given based upon skill levels (essentially open get none, adv get 1, int get 2, rec get 3) which do a pretty good job of leveling the field. Although the $ really isn't that important to me, the feeling that I can compete for it and have a reward if I play well is. I doubt I'd come weekly if that wasn't the case.

 

[whentherainscome]

Cheating AMs by paying out in plastic? Interesting point of view there. I guess you are not a fan of any sanctioned tournament at all.

Just being a bit over the top. There was a time when I was a lot more excited by the idea of "winning plastic" than I am now.

I know that Am plastic is how my club saves up for some added cash for all our events as well as prep for our annual A-Tier. The biggest fields there are MA1 and MA3, so that goes to support a big, fun event for everyone, and sponsors are wooed for money to provide added cash for the pro pot. I'm not against the practice at all. I'm more against the idea that am participation is any less important or directly related to the health and growth of the sport than the size of the pro purse. This is a local league we're discussing, not an NT event.

 

[Ender175]

I'm in a doubles league right now but in last summer's singles league we had a handicapping system that I thought was pretty fair to everyone. Basically it was a 3/4 handicap. Once everyone had three rounds in the books we took a rolling three round average of everyone's scores, multiplied times .75, and rounded towards 0. So if one of the duffers had an average score of 10 over, they played with a 7 handicap, and if one of the best guys is averaging 4 under, he plays to a -3 handicap.

I felt like this was a nice balance between rewarding the people who have put in the time and effort to get good better odds of winning and making sure anyone has a chance to win on any given day. Especially since our league isn't big enough to split into two divisions.

 

[WhiteyBear]

I'm in a doubles league right now but in last summer's singles league we had a handicapping system that I thought was pretty fair to everyone. Basically it was a 3/4 handicap. Once everyone had three rounds in the books we took a rolling three round average of everyone's scores, multiplied times .75, and rounded towards 0. So if one of the duffers had an average score of 10 over, they played with a 7 handicap, and if one of the best guys is averaging 4 under, he plays to a -3 handicap.

I felt like this was a nice balance between rewarding the people who have put in the time and effort to get good better odds of winning and making sure anyone has a chance to win on any given day. Especially since our league isn't big enough to split into two divisions.

I do enjoy handicapped play. A lot of DGers get turned off by it, but mainly because they don't understand what it means. It's used in our Fall League every year for the Championship. To date, we've had a Pro, ADV Master, ADV, and INT win. Usually they are 1/2 to 2 strokes within each other for the win.

 

[dcon67]

I'm still playing with the numbers but my plan for the coming year is to pay AM2/Rec 30% deep and charge $5.00 versus paying out 25% to AM1/Pro with a $6.00 entry ($3.00 to weekly payout versus $2.00 for Am2). Doing this made it so that the winning Am1/Pro would still win more than the top Am2 even if the numbers were 25 Am2 players versus 10 Am1/Pro.

Am1/Pro pays out 3 of 10
1st - $14
2nd - $9
3rd - $7

Am2/Rec Pays out 8 of 25:
1st - $12
2nd - $9
3rd - $7
4th - $6
5th - $5
6th - $4
7th - $3
8th - $3


And if those numbers were to reverse....

Am1/Pro Pays out 6 out of 25
1st - $23
2nd - $16
3rd - $13
4th - $10
5th - $8
6th - $5

Am2/Rec pays out 3 out of 10
1st - $10
2nd - $6
3rd - $4