Moving a log

[robdeforge]

two questions:

casual obstacle or permanent/integral part of the course?
I wonder how long it was before somebody moved it back?

 

[ru4por]

Not sure I understand either question. I don't feel like watching 42 minutes of video to figure it out. Help a brother out and explain, man, explain.

 

[Chains Bailey]

Not sure I understand either question. I don't feel like watching 42 minutes of video to figure it out. Help a brother out and explain, man, explain.

McBeth moved a log for his stance in the fairway.

Reason this may seem odd at this event is because logs of the same size and shape line many fairways and greens - they come into play a lot at this course. Many guarding shots from going into OB water hazards.

By rule, I would say there was no reason Paul could not move the log.

At the same time, I could see people questioning it, because similar logs seem like part of the course at times. Additionally, the log he moved served as an aesthetic element to the hole / course.

 

[robdeforge]

Not sure I understand either question. I don't feel like watching 42 minutes of video to figure it out. Help a brother out and explain, man, explain.

sorry, I forget the timestamp doesn't always work! 23:30ish

 

[hiflyer]

That particular log was DEFINITELY part of the course. I would equate it to moving one of those walls they put up to help prevent roll aways or mark OB. It was, without a doubt, intentionally placed to be part of the course. PMB was losing and couldn't keep up, so he decided to cheat.

 

[Cgkdisc]

That particular log was DEFINITELY part of the course. I would equate it to moving one of those walls they put up to help prevent roll aways or mark OB. It was, without a doubt, intentionally placed to be part of the course. PMB was losing and couldn't keep up, so he decided to cheat.

How does one determine whether an obstacle has been intentionally placed to become part of the course? Maybe require branding intentionally placed logs with a course logo?

 

[hiflyer]

How does one determine whether an obstacle has been intentionally placed to become part of the course? Maybe require branding intentionally placed logs with a course logo?

No branding necessary. It's location and alignment with the rest of the logs, in a non-natural formation, clearly demonstrate it was placed there to be a part of the course. It most definitely did not just happen to fall there (ok, maybe a 1:1000000000 chance).

A single log, hap-hazardly placed somewhere could be argued as a natural obstacle, and would benefit from branding. The log in question was part of a larger man-made structure. After PMD moved the log, it still looked like it was part of the train of logs, but some jack-ass derailed it.

 

[robdeforge]

How does one determine whether an obstacle has been intentionally placed to become part of the course? Maybe require branding intentionally placed logs with a course logo?

maybe the caddy book can help

 

[Cgkdisc]

No branding necessary. It's location and alignment with the rest of the logs, in a non-natural formation, clearly demonstrate it was placed there to be a part of the course. It most definitely did not just happen to fall there (ok, maybe a 1:1000000000 chance).

A single log, hap-hazardly placed somewhere could be argued as a natural obstacle, and would benefit from branding. The log in question was part of a larger man-made structure. After PMD moved the log, it still looked like it was part of the train of logs, but some jack-ass derailed it.

I'd say if it isn't anchored in some manner, it isn't permanent. I realize being aligned is sort of a clue and I've placed many logs that way on my course designs over the years. But I'm guessing we've all seen a line of logs with each one at a slightly different angle that changes as players come by and jar them. Make an effort to secure them in place and then you have a permanent obstacle.

 

[Keller]

I feel bad for all the volunteers who work on their home courses who place logs for aesthetic reasons or to prevent roll-aways who now have to deal with every league moron who is now going to move them because Paul did.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I feel bad for all the volunteers who work on their home courses who place logs for aesthetic reasons or to prevent roll-aways who now have to deal with every league moron who is now going to move them because Paul did.

As a designer, I agree it sucks. Many times, the owner won't pay for anchoring those aesthetic and functional touches, sometimes due to liability as a potential tripping hazard. The message unfortunately is if you want things to stay in place, you have to anchor them in some way. You don't place tee signs or baskets without anchoring them.

 

[robdeforge]

Now that I've looked at the caddy book it's clear to me he moved something he shouldn't have. it also never got moved back.

 

[BillFleming]

Paint them. Just a line or a large spot of paint could designate logs that are "part of the course".

Or at the player's meeting and in the caddy book, make it known. Logs are part of the course and may not be moved.

 

[dmoore1998]

I'm no rules expert...so maybe things like anchors or paint or caddy book notings is critical here. When I watched the video though, it couldn't have been more obvious to me as a random guy watching that the logs were clearly intentionally placed there. In 2 minutes of video, it was clear that course had them everywhere...intentionally. I'm not sure everyone everywhere needs to start anchoring everything on the course or painting it just because one person got obviously frustrated and did something they clearly shouldn't have. Caddy book seems like the simplest fix if that's really needed...and maybe there's technically some rule that allows what he did...but I have to imagine someone on the premises and playing that course understood the logs were there intentionally if I could figure it out after 2 minutes of video coverage.

 

[Discbee]

Would have been interesting to see him get called on it and watch the reaction and ensuing argument.

He could have at least put it back....

 

[desmondeby]

That particular log was DEFINITELY part of the course. I would equate it to moving one of those walls they put up to help prevent roll aways or mark OB. It was, without a doubt, intentionally placed to be part of the course. PMB was losing and couldn't keep up, so he decided to cheat.

It sounds like somebody doesn't like Paul McBeth.

The rules are that anything dead and unattached CAN be moved.

 

[Mack eby]

If the td wants to he can make it so it can't be moved, unless if you use a bulldozer

 

[BillFleming]

It sounds like somebody doesn't like Paul McBeth.

The rules are that anything dead and unattached CAN be moved.

Unless it is part of the course. That's what it comes down to - was it part of the course AND did he KNOW it was part of the course?

 

[Mack eby]

Unless it is part of the course. That's what it comes down to - was it part of the course AND did he KNOW it was part of the course?

If it's part of the course they can fasten it so it can't be moved.

 

[dmoore1998]

If it's part of the course they can fasten it so it can't be moved.

They "can", but that's in no way a rule or requirement for something to be considered part of the course to my knowledge. Have you seen the course? If so, having seen it, do you find there to be confusion about whether the logs are part of the course?

Honestly, it's hard for me to imagine McBeth didn't understand they are a part of the course. It seemed like either a moment of frustration or not even really thinking about it, and just moving it. I certainly don't think he was thinking "I know this is illegal, but I'm going to do it anyways". I have a hard time imagining him looking back at the video and not thinking "yeah, that should have been a penalty, I wasn't thinking".