Moving to bent arm throw. Critique please!

[Daubers]

Hey guys, just decided to try out bent arm throws. Played a couple rounds and improved my accuracy/consistency quite a bit, but think I can get some more distance. Right now throwing 375-400 max. Only been able to practice inside right now ( -25 out) but my accuracy on my "range" inside is near dead center but can't really tell changes in distance. Any advice and things to work on would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Daubers]

Sorry, will have video uploaded in a moment. Internet went out so I'm stuck on slow 3g right now.

 

[jeverett]

I'm a little confused as to your "bent arm" reference.. I *think* you're meaning "bent elbow", as opposed to the other common throwing style "lever arm". The difference between these two is primarily the elbow motion, although this distinction also produces a difference in where the disc comes across the body:

In "bent elbow" the disc comes across high(er) on the chest/pecs, and the elbow is bent significantly. Mechanically, it makes the arm operate a lot like a whip (with the wrist, elbow, and shoulder all 'whipping' out the disc).

In "lever arm" the disc comes across low(er) on the chest, and the elbow is straighter (with less elbow motion overall). Mechanically, it makes the arm operate a lot like the lever arm on a catapult.

Does that help clarify your form at all?

 

[Daubers]

Not sure why I cannot edit but here is a video of some throws i just took.

 

[Daubers]

I'm a little confused as to your "bent arm" reference.. I *think* you're meaning "bent elbow", as opposed to the other common throwing style "lever arm". The difference between these two is primarily the elbow motion, although this distinction also produces a difference in where the disc comes across the body:

In "bent elbow" the disc comes across high(er) on the chest/pecs, and the elbow is bent significantly. Mechanically, it makes the arm operate a lot like a whip (with the wrist, elbow, and shoulder all 'whipping' out the disc).

In "lever arm" the disc comes across low(er) on the chest, and the elbow is straighter (with less elbow motion overall). Mechanically, it makes the arm operate a lot like the lever arm on a catapult.

Does that help clarify your form at all?

I guess I am referring to bent elbow then. I have always heard and seen bent elbow and bent arm styles used interchangeably

 

[Vonbeezy1]

Is that a large 1000 inch tv in the background?? Lol please don't griplock and hit that!

 

[Daubers]

Is that a large 1000 inch tv in the background?? Lol please don't griplock and hit that!

haha only 163" Its the projector out in my garage which doubles as a man cave

 

[sidewinder22]

Bent arm is a reach back technique that very few players actually use. Bent elbow is a throwing technique that most use and most often there's some hybrid of bent elbow and lever/swedish style.

Your grip looks off and you are moving the disc into different planes throughout the throw and swinging over the top from your very high reach back. Keep the arm/disc low in the reach back and keep it level to a slightly higher finish. Your hips aren't doing much, as your rear toes lift off the ground and you push off from the heel with the rear knee extended which tips your upper spine over the lower spine. Stay off the rear heel, keep some flex in the rear knee/hip and push the rear hip from the instep of the rear foot.

There's basically no smash in your throw, your arm stops in the follow through and your body continues forward. Your body should remain braced/balanced on the front foot through the finish and your arm/body should recoil.

 

[Daubers]

Just what I was looking for. Thanks sidewinder! Will study up on the vids and start implementing changes.

 

[Daubers]

I recognise what you mean about the hips and snap but not sure about the grip. I'm using a standard climo/fork grip. Has always worked better for me than power grip

 

[sidewinder22]

I recognise what you mean about the hips and snap but not sure about the grip. I'm using a standard climo/fork grip. Has always worked better for me than power grip

That's fine, but the disc alignment to the forearm looks off/over top the disc too much and too tight which is common in an over the top swing. I'd recommend messing around with the 2 finger grip and then modifying your grip from that. There really shouldn't be much difference between the grips.

 

[Daubers]

Got it thanks. Will work on it today. For the first time ever I actually have some significant time to practice ( work comp head injury). So I want to heavily work on my throw during this time. Once I make changes I will post another vid

 

[Daubers]

Well I have made a ton of progress on my form. Much more power for less effort. Only part i am still struggling with is over spinning. I got the weight transfer going better thanks to the golf vids but I think I may be losing power from over spinning my body instead of transferring to my throw. An i just putting too much emphasis on weight transfer?

 

[sidewinder22]

Probably trying to shift your weight. You want to maintain dynamic balance and ride the inertial wave. You must brace your weight against the front leg, so there should be some resistance so you can provide a post to torque from.

Part 2 talks about the front leg:



These are great:

 

[Daubers]

You are the man! Soon as I'm back in town I'll give it a go. As far as I can tell practicing in a hotel room it is much better already. I found thinking of it more in the weight transfer of throwing a tight hook helps a lot and feels natural (boxing background).

 

[Daubers]

Progress....

I finally had time to get a little practice in and it made a huge difference ( hopefully a positive one ). I took another quick video of my throw changing the things that sidewinder pointed out.

Here is the OLD video of my throw pre-critique.


Here is the NEW video with modified throw.

Please let me know what things to work on next.
Thanks!

 

[sidewinder22]

Definitely better, needs more fine tuning leverages and smoothing it out your sequencing. The disc still doesn't look quite aligned to the forearm in your grip at reachback. Working from a standstill will improve things faster as most of your x-step is wasted motion. Keep your rear heel off the ground during an x-step, the hips load and rotate/torque much better when pushed from the instep. Your rear foot plants 180 degrees away from the target, so you can't really load into the rear foot/instep/leg. So your rear foot will be turned more toward the target and your hips will load further into the leg. Watch "the move" and the hershyzer wall drill above^^.

 

[Daubers]

Thanks brother. Will get working on that and post back in later.

 

[Krinkncrank]

My first post, so go easy...

Those golf swing videos are very helpful in understanding the movement patterning of the lead leg - thanks for posting that!

The difficult thing about the disc golf backhand throw is that it is like doing the golf swing (or baseball bat swing or hockey slap shot) on the 'wrong' side. At least for most people.There's the odd lefty who bats or swings a stick on what is normally the righty side, and vice-versa.

I'm a lefty and grew up playing many different sports. Batted left and used a hockey stick left. What came out of that was a certain neurological patterning in those movements, and a development of strength in associated muscles to support those movements. I kick a soccer ball also with my right foot, the same foot that I plant forward in swinging a baseball bat and hockey stick, and as a result, even many years later, my right leg is the slightly stronger and more coordinated one.

So when doing the lead leg plant for a lefty disc golf backhand, I am planting my left leg. I think that because that left leg is weaker and not as well able to resist the loading when bringing the arm through it causes compensations in throwing mechanics which screw things up, not to mention bleed off the power.

So, in past weeks I've been working at strengthening my weaker leg, and I can already tell that the planting action and loading feels a lot more solid.

The backhand is a complicated kinetic chain of movements. It's great to be able to see these form analyses from experienced throwers.

 

[sidewinder22]

Exactly, it's almost like learning to write or throw with the off hand. You have to learn how to move the opposite direction you've already learned from other sports. The backhand is a bastard sports motion except for the ambidextrous or tennis players.