Need your input please. Thanks!

[DavidSauls]

For a TD, there's no right answer. This thread reflects the wider world of players, in which there's a great range of preference.

As a life-long Am, my personal preference is no players pack at all. Rather than charge me $50 and give me $15 in stuff---even if using the preferred "voucher" system---I'd rather you charge me $35 and let me decide whether to buy $15 of stuff, or not.

My greater preference is modest entry, no players pack, entry going to prizes.

My greatest preference would be low entry fee ($20), no players pack, no prizes, just trophies. But I also like playing tournaments with big fields, and this isn't the formula for creating them. Sigh.

 

[bschick]

I think in the AM fields, there should be a nice players package for everyone. The voucher system is a great way to ensure everyone gets something useful as others have stated. I also think it is important to pay deep and flat to minimize the sandbagging that takes place.

 

[iacas]

Speaking as an (barely) INT AM, here's my 2 cents.
:
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Just my thoughts.

That seems to be a popular/common way of thinking.

And not that there's anything wrong with it, but it seems to be representative of an "issue" (I don't want to call it a "problem") that disc golfers seem to have - they don't value the tournament experience.

Yes, in many cases you can play the course for free the next day, but you don't get to do so in a tournament setting. Your score doesn't count, you aren't playing for pride and with the pressure of testing yourself, and there's no TD who has probably spent 10, 20, 30+ hours putting the event together even if there is no player's pack and a small % field payout.

Again it's not right or wrong, per se, it just seems to be "the way it is."

 

[wake911]

It will take a lot to change the perceptions of "I need to get my moneys worth of merch or it's a waste of time to play tourney" This is the only sport I have competed in tournaments that does that. Coming from Table Tennis and Waterskiing at the competitive Amateur Level, it was all about winning a trophy, and challenging yourself to perform your best when the pressure was on. As well as to judge your skill level against others.

Hopefully it can happen though, the tough part is figuring out how much money the club should keep. I'm hoping to assist with some tournaments more in depth next year, to learn more. Maybe I'm just oblivious to how it really goes on, and this will never work.

In short (i deleted a MASSIVE post) No players pack, trophy only at nov/rec/int. Vouchers to pro shop for Adv. Cash for Pro.

CTP's paid for by extra entry money and sponsors. Different for each division in payout and hole. This way rec won't be throwing against pro for a CTP and will have a chance. This always bothers me when everyone shoots at the same CTP.

 

[Hampstead]

I'm not too worried about the player's pack, but it can be a bit disappointing when it comes time to redeem $100 in "tourney money" and all they have are DX discs with previous tournament stamps on them.

 

[Mattallica]

I don't play in tourneys because of the pace. I would not fare well sitting around and letting my arm get stiff.

Get hooked up with a local club and start playing dubs frequently. I was.in the same boat a while ago, now i have adapted to the slower pace.

 

[wake911]

Get hooked up with a local club and start playing dubs frequently. I was.in the same boat a while ago, now i have adapted to the slower pace.

Adapting and enjoying is VERY different. I too can't stand the slow pace of some tournaments. But i enjoy the competition enough to put up with it. If you don't enjoy the competition enough to outpace the slow playing pace, then just keep doing what you are doing, it's all supposed to be fun!

 

[numbernine]

Thank you all for the great input.
The reason I ask is that we are about to have the annual meeting for our summer series event, and I want to make sure that I have a lot of data before I go in spouting off a bunch of ideas.

My goal this year is to grow the sport in our state. I would like to see a 20% increase of men coming to tournaments, and a 200% increase of women and juniors. I am of the opinion that Rec Women should play for free and then give a disc or something to the winner. Anyway. Your ideas are awesome. Thanks again!

 

[g2avity]

CTP's paid for by extra entry money and sponsors. Different for each division in payout and hole. This way rec won't be throwing against pro for a CTP and will have a chance. This always bothers me when everyone shoots at the same CTP.

With that said ... it was a delightful finish to a great tourney experience this past weekend when I placed 3rd in Int. Am (should've won ) and then went on to finish 4th and 6th CTP out of probably 30-40 shots taken CTP (2 ea. player, all levels throwing together, top 6 won prizes)

 

[JRW III]

... Rather than charge me $50 and give me $15 in stuff---even if using the preferred "voucher" system---I'd rather you charge me $35 and let me decide whether to buy $15 of stuff, or not. ...

This!!!

 

[brian j]

thank you to everyone for your comments. i'm td'ing my first c-tier next year and you've made me realize i need to start planning NOW.

one of the most popular mountain bike race promoters i know offers a pint glass w/custom logo and a dry fit teeshirt to everyone that enters his 100 mile races. everyone treats their glass and shirt as a trophy. i wonder if that'll work for a disc golf tournament. :-/

 

[Mabuku1]

If it's not a disc you throw, then it's useless. I can't tell you how many tourney discs I see in the used bins at pro shops that are brand new. A trophy would be better imo like the days of little league. It is insanely slow playing a group of five people waiting on a group of five people waiting on a group of five people... And so on. It throws your momentum in the toilet. I am not going to fork over $45 to play in something that I know i'm not going to come close to placing yet, and i'm already set on discs so I don't need another one.

 

[simpletwist]

I guess it depends. I've played in tournaments with big payouts and small player pack and vice versa. Both have they're merits. I've enjoyed both. I guess it depends on the venue & what exactly is in the players pack. If the big players pack has things I already have or don't want its not of as much interest.

 

[sisyphus]

My $0.02: Coming from a rookie (but with 18 unsanctioned and 14 sanctioned tournaments ranging from 12 to 630 participants), I'd just like to mention that most Novice/Rec players look forward to players' packs like a kid at Christmas. And getting a little something for finishing in the top half is a major goal for a beginner.


After my first couple dozen competitions, I've accumulated triple digits of discs, so I can see how merch prizes could get old after a few years. I can also get the notion that pros are much more enticed by bigger and bigger cash payouts. So I'm actually impressed that the pdga guidelines for fees, packs and payouts cover all of this pretty well.


The bottom line in hosting an event might just come down to your underlying motivations: is this to be a fun event for local tourney players, are you trying to draw folks from afar who may have to stay overnight, or is the focus more on trying to grow the sport? I liked the idea of super low fees (or even free) for groups who aren't enjoying this great sport yet (novices and ladies!). I'm very lucky to live in a region where all these options are available within a day's drive! :clap:

 

[whitechocolate]

Sorry in advance for rant

I think the balance between the players pack and the payout is important. Both need to be worth while to interest me in playing a tournament. Plus I think it is a way to draw in the most people (both spectrum of players when it comes to "prizes").

From a time management standpoint (I don't really like the speed of tourneys myself, I shoot drastically worse slower), I would rather take my players pack, play up, and leave immediately after the second round knowing I did not cash, then wait around an hour for the equalivent of a two disc payout. Seeing rating changes is more important to me than winning plastic.

Although I did not play any tourney this year (injury/time), here is my current "philosophy" on tournaments.

C-tier (or lower) - I would not even bother unless a friend wanted to try his/her first/second/third tournament or someone locally was running it who I truly like and wanted to support (ie my local club or local TDs i like, not the ones I don't). For that kinda payouts, I would rather play casuals rounds and vacuum.

B-tier - I'd probably play if it's within an hour from my house and I had nothing else I had to do...and I liked the TD. I would not if I didn't.

A-tier (or better) - I would definitely consider traveling for. I probably would max out at 2 a year, unless more were within 3-4 hours of my house. Would probably consider all that were that close.

I think one of the 99 problems with tournaments is it needs to be an event. Not directed at anybody in particular, but if you do not make it an event and just create two (or more) rounds it's really just long casual play drawn out by others, with prizes. Leagues only take a couple hours, making someone new want to give up 10 hours for two rounds will take effort. I know most TDs put in a lot of work, however, from an outsiders perspective, half the time you really cannot tell a tournament is going on. The course just looks busy. That's not a tourney, that's just structure.

Please take with a grain of salt. I have years of marketing/events management experience so I know what makes people come and what deters them. I will get off my soapbox now.

So I guess my answers are:

From a PDGA member perspective (which I am)- I want balance between the two, something to fight for, and something no matter what I shoot.

From a non tourney player (which I was this year by default)- I would not come out to your (or anyone's) free tourney to play for a disc. It has nothing to do with my skill level. You can hear me saying at tourneys after hitting the first tree, "Well, someone has to come in last." My time is more valuable than one disc. That's why I stop looking after a few minutes for mine. I'd play casual before have someone dictate the pace of my day for next to nothing. Sorry.

 

[tom12003]

I think the balance between the players pack and the payout is important. Both need to be worth while to interest me in playing a tournament. Plus I think it is a way to draw in the most people (both spectrum of players when it comes to "prizes").

I have to agree about a balance of players package/payout can be a determinant for the Intermediate AMs and lesser divisions. IMO, these divisions should be trophy only (I still relish my first trophy from 17 years ago). A moderate players package remains important for these divisions as it gives some incentive to play. If you lack a competitive spirit or don't like to lose your first attempts, don't bother entering a tournament and all that it entails--just keep beating your buddies in casual play (enjoy whatever you do). If you think you are good, put it to the test. Its about showing up and doing it and (subsequently improving it).

The Advanced AMs (MA1) usually are already "proven" players (but not ready to commit to pro levels); alternatively they are trying to move up the food chain. Most do not care about the players package (nice but not a determinant) and are already bitten and don't need that incentive. When they "cash" it only adds to their existing stash of plastic. For the MA1 division I think "payouts" could be scaled down a little (depending on the event--exception for such as Bowling Green, Charlotte AM, or like events); if they want payouts, they should play pro.

If I had a preference, ALL AM events would be trophy only with a moderate players package. The elite MA1 players should be in the pro fields, where payout really means $$.