Newbie seeking help: Nose up, not bracing, leading shoulder high

[Lumberjack504]

Hi guys, been playing (trying) for a few months now. Throwing RHBH. Getting my drivers out to 250-300', mids and putters 200-240, max. My first little breakthrough was watching the Mike C nose down grip video. This helped with my sky-high noob hyzers that went 120' and stalled big time. My next break through was realizing that I needed a relaxed wrist instead of a rigid "cast" approach I was using, this helped me get past 200'. My latest little break through was pulling the disc close to the chest, this has helped a lot with eliminating OAT and wobble, and has helped accuracy. Although I still battle nose up throws and a little left and right spray here and there.

I've read a ton of articles here, most of the stickies. Been all over heavy disc, etc. I'm just not sure where to begin.

I KNOW I'm not bracing. Don't know how to do it (yet). My footage shows me blowing my knee straight forward towards the target. Not sure if this is weight back, or just weight going too far forward.

I also know that I'm lifting the disc up towards the end of the pull, and not keeping it level. This probably explains the nose-up trajectory. I've played with a lot of grips that try to keep the nose down, but I can see in my footage that my throwing shoulder is lifting up, and not staying level.

I'm sure I'm strong-arming too, just based on my lack of distance.

Where does one start? Do I nuke it and start over, or is there any salvaging that can be done?

Anyways, here's the footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvchKIEJbj0

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Can you throw a hyzer flip with a understable disc and get it to fly straight?

All the run up stuff and mechanics are just off.

Start from a standstill and focus on the weight shift while staying closed (hyzer) and bringing the disc lower through the core. You will need a more atheltic stance and posture slightly over the disc vs rounding around like a straight flag pole. You look very tense from the start of the throw and dont build much acceleration into the hit.

Scrap it honestly. Turn back too early and are flat footed with no real timing of weight to transfer power to the disc.

 

[Lumberjack504]

Thanks, aim. I've been able to hyzer flip a sidewinder once or twice, why do you ask? (just curious)

When you say lower through the core, should the disc end up in the right pec position still?

I plan on going back to standstill throws and staying balanced and trying to focus on bracing.

As far as a walk-up/run-up, when do I know I can try to start slowly working it back in?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Hyzer flipping understable stuff and seeing how you can manipulate the flight of a single disc through different angles will help understand just "how-to" throw. IMO its the one technique which is very valuable to learn as a disc golfer.

A standstill or single step throw just allow ypu to focus more on the simple things before you worry about the fred flinstone feet. You are not going to gain 100+ feet just by trying to run up. Run ups come in all different styles and given the shot will look different too. Hyzerflip vs roller are very different shots which use unique runups. In general you just want to stay slightly closed and get the body out of the way so you can move around the disc when trying to throw flat shots.

Pulling through the core wont really change where the disc comes out you will just be in a more athletic posture. Right pec wont be so high in general and should help with nose up.

 

[Lumberjack504]

Cool, thanks again.

How do you feel about the Beto drill? I know there is a 1-step element in there. Would that be a good place to go after I feel comfortable with stand still?

 

[Justin H]

Try getting the disc up in the loaded position earlier. Before you cross your feet in the X step, you should have that disc up just above your left elbow. When you have the disc and your arm loaded, you can lead the throw with your shoulder. This will allow you to get your head over your front foot as you pull the disc across your chest and your weight will transfer correctly. An easy way to start at first is to just put the disc in that position before you even start your run up.

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

Cool, thanks again.

How do you feel about the Beto drill? I know there is a 1-step element in there. Would that be a good place to go after I feel comfortable with stand still?

Bradley Walker's closed shoulder snap drill is better than the Beto drill.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Bradley Walker's closed shoulder snap drill is better than the Beto drill.

4 sure. Beto drill never really connected for me outside of keeping elbow FW but thats exaggerated to the max in his old video. Closed shoulder drill shows how easy it is to not srpay discs left and right when aligned properly.

 

[sidewinder22]

I agree with most all the above. Your backswing is rounding for sure and loaded over the top by leaning back over your rear leg instead of turning more under and inside the rear leg on a tilted athletic plane(tug of war/door frame drill). I use a similar backswing but you never swing forward enough in the xstep, and then you lift arm/disc back around/outside your feet, while I keep the disc inside my feet going into the backswing and let it swing straight back like a pendulum(much easier to see from camera behind the tee).

 

[Lumberjack504]

I appreciate all the feedback guys, I'm going to go back to standstill for a bit for sure. Will focus on getting a bit lower/athletic posture and pulling straighter back and forward, and pulling lower through my core while trying keep my shoulders level.

 

[Akain132]

Do you always step past the pad on your run up? Try and stay on the tee pad through your entire throw. What helped me was learning how to hyzer flip putters and midranges and then learning to throw them flat without them turning drastically. I have been practicing hard for 4 months and just recently started throwing my drivers over 300'. It takes time and practice and the biggest piece of advice that helped me is slow is smooth and smooth is far. I was doing the same things noob sky high hyzers, no accuracy couldn't drive a mid or putter to save my life. I focused on the mids and putters and bam everything started clicking. Remember slow is smooth and smooth is far when I slowed everything down is when I started to get more distance.

 

[Lumberjack504]

No, don't always step out the tee pad. Didn't intend to do it here. I've been working on a one-step throw, really trying to lead with my backside, crush the can, brace, and use the hips to drive the pull through. Trying to focus on accelerating late too. I'm already seeing some dividends, so I'm going to stick with that and try to slowly work in extra steps once I'm getting out to 300' comfortably and consistently with this method.

 

[Lumberjack504]

Ok guys, went out to the field today to do some stand-still throws. Results were mixed as far as disc flight goes: Putters/mids out to 200-250', drivers 250-300'. I did manage to have two really good looking pulls, beautiful nose-down, line-drive, laser beam ropes out to 300 ft, but I couldn't reproduce them. On these throws, I remembered that I tried to focus on really getting my body out of the way and pulling tight to the chest. Again, couldn't reproduce them. Not sure what I did right-ish compared to the other throws which had higher flight and a more stall-y fade.

I've looked at the Hershizer drill and the One Leg drill, and tried to somehow incorporate them into my throws today. Based on the looks of things, I didn't do a good job of that. :doh:



Looking back at the footage, it looks like my backswing is still rounding, maybe not as severely, but still rounding nonetheless. I'm still pulling through high and lifting that dang leading shoulder. I also slowed it down and looked at where the disc is coming out, and I noticed that when the disc reaches the right pec, my hand is at 12 o clock, when (I think) it should still be on the outside of the disc. Does this mean I am decelerating through the hit point? Or should I be getting my elbow more forward? Elbow higher up?

Anyways, here's the footage. I know I have a long, long way to go, but I'm willing to put in some work as I have a lot of free time this summer. (May have to throw at night, it's too damn hot down here in the Dirty South)



I appreciate all of you taking the time to check this out. Cheers

 

[INTP]

The analogy that made it click for me was reaching down and helping someone up from the floor. Hips move away first as you instinctively prep counterbalance for the upcoming drag. Pull through as if you're standing the person straight up (and maybe launch them across the room). No one does this via a circular path, always automatically linear.

Your vid there shows you're tossing with upper body. Just because it's a standing throw doesn't mean you don't weight shift.

 

[Lumberjack504]

Your vid there shows you're tossing with upper body. Just because it's a standing throw doesn't mean you don't weight shift.

Great point. I can tell I'm still strong-arming, but I've also had issues getting weight forward. I thought the one-leg drill would help with this, starting with weight on my plant foot, but it seems I'm not digesting that one properly, or not figuring out how to incorporate it into a throw. Calling SW22....:thmbup:

 

[Lumberjack504]

http://imgur.com/VShnQaD

This here is what I was saying about my hand being on the 12 o clock position at the right pec. Should I actively be punching my elbow more target-ward? Is this a product of pulling too early?

Thanks guys

 

[Rockwell]

This Drill can help you with nose up issues:

 

[sidewinder22]

http://imgur.com/VShnQaD

This here is what I was saying about my hand being on the 12 o clock position at the right pec. Should I actively be punching my elbow more target-ward? Is this a product of pulling too early?

Thanks guys

Need to get balanced on your front leg - head stacked over foot and forward athletic tilt from the hips and swing through your center of gravity - power pocket created by tilting.

 

[Lumberjack504]

Thanks SW. I totally see what you're saying. Just having trouble implementing it in practice. I went out to the field again today for about an hour keeping it in mind, but my body doesn't want to comply. :wall:

I took some footage again today and am seeing more of the same. I know this takes work and time, but I don't want to keep doing the same thing and develop bad habits (if I haven't already done so...).

I'm considering slowing way down and working from the "hit" backwards, so to speak, so I can train my body to get the feel for more proper positions. I can tell I'm still strong-arming, opening too early, rounding, the list goes on...

If anyone cares to see today's footage:
Side view
Rear view

 

[sidewinder22]

Yep, your weight/balance never leaves the rear foot.