No respect for DG?

[Mind Expansi0n]

Or assist that trash in finding a nice 10x6 to spend the night in and/or call them out when they act like trash on the course.

I understand it is frustrating not to get what you want. These are tough times and you may have to seek alternatives to a public course. When times get tough the tough get going or play another sport.

 

[DavidSauls]

when you compare disc golf to other sports and then mention lack of respect (from the outside world) one thing immediately comes to mind;

this constant train of thought that the disc golf elite somehow deserve to have big sponsors coming in and throwing money around. nike this, red bull that, sponsors, blah blah blah. that'll change disc golf for sure. i can compete on fancy courses for big money and become a disc golf pro!

no one "deserves" money for hobbies. yeah skateboarders and snowboarders and red bull dancers make some money. a few of them at least. but they dont "deserve" that. please tell me why they deserve to get paid lots of money versus the teacher or nurse who trained themselves for years at something thats actually useful and beneficial for society.

have you ever thought the "we deserve money and sponsors in disc golf" (i.e.-respect from the outside world) attitude might be part of the problem?
not just the hippies and stoners and drunks on the course?

/rant.

You should probably save this where you can easily cut-and-paste. It'll come in useful again.

Ultimately, those athletes who earn big money "deserve" it because they're entertainers, not because of the inherent value of what they do. Millions of people enjoy watching them, enough to pay for the chance, or at least to endure sponsor's ads.

I doubt that's ever going to happen with disc golf.

 

[Tpro]

when you compare disc golf to other sports and then mention lack of respect (from the outside world) one thing immediately comes to mind;

this constant train of thought that the disc golf elite somehow deserve to have big sponsors coming in and throwing money around. nike this, red bull that, sponsors, blah blah blah. that'll change disc golf for sure. i can compete on fancy courses for big money and become a disc golf pro!

no one "deserves" money for hobbies. yeah skateboarders and snowboarders and red bull dancers make some money. a few of them at least. but they dont "deserve" that. please tell me why they deserve to get paid lots of money versus the teacher or nurse who trained themselves for years at something thats actually useful and beneficial for society.

have you ever thought the "we deserve money and sponsors in disc golf" (i.e.-respect from the outside world) attitude might be part of the problem?
not just the hippies and stoners and drunks on the course?

/rant.

^^BOOOOM.
You guys need to get this through your head.....Disc Golf will NEVER be HUGE. Disc Golf will never make people famous outside of the sport. Disc Golf will NOT help you live in the Hamptons lol. Disc Golf IS a great HOBBY that sometimes pays for my dinner after a round. I Love me some disc golf but get real the average guy thinks disc golf is a joke and probably would flip right over it on tv. Disc golf is free soo we are at the mercy of parks and rec for the most part. Pay to play would do wonders for our sport and so would a HUGE fan base. Our top pros are less well known than the guys that were in the dunk contest the other night and one of those guys only averages like 1.3 points a game... ok im done

 

[T.Hizzle]

People who argue against this point are ignorant. Regardless of your personal opinion of people partaking in these activities, the negative perception from most non dg players comes from this stuff. Like it or not.

A. Not during events (unless its daly)
B. Not around juniors likely

I would argue a few major reasons for lack of "respect" are these;
Hard to break "stoner" stigma
Absolutely no money in the sport at all, when your last 4-5 world champs are havin to sell fundraiser discs just so they can tour thats not a good look for sponsors old and prospective alike. Scares away new money, and old.

Needs a better sanctioning body, more consistency with tournies, better/easier way of ranking players and rating play.

Make "majors" more of a big deal and no handicap BS for your "championship"

I also believe the way a lot of course are made negatively affects peoples views as well. Specifically course in public parks that are vey close to houses and those with not enough room or that were designed poorly and had the course too close to playgrounds and areas like that.

I think dg will not get to the level OP wants until a major sponsor not rooted in dg comes in, nike for example.

But really its gonna be very hard to improve on where we are now until we are better organized and take ourselves and dg more seriously, how can you expect the public to give you respect if you cant get thru a ound of disc without getting high?

Amen! Are you still a PDGA member?

 

[Pwingles]

Amen! Are you still a PDGA member?

Never have been

 

[KniceZ]

Go take a look at another currently ongoing thread - Pollished courses. Till dg stops being crudely carved out of the woods with eroded tees, it will never get passed the "trailer park trash" image.

Probably has to do with most courses being free. I personally don't mind the hiking trail type courses and like that fact that it's usually free, but can anyone really image ball golfers putting up with dg type conditions.

 

[mashnut]

Go take a look at another currently ongoing thread - Pollished courses. Till dg stops being crudely carved out of the woods with eroded tees, it will never get passed the "trailer park trash" image.

Probably has to do with most courses being free. I personally don't mind the hiking trail type courses and like that fact that it's usually free, but can anyone really image ball golfers putting up with dg type conditions.

I disagree completely. I think adventure style courses that are secluded and natural appeal to a lot of people who want a nice walk in the woods. There are plenty of city park courses with nice grass and no chances to get dirty or walk up a hill for the people who prefer that type of course.

 

[Lewis]

... and dg course conditions would make ball golf unplayable. It takes a manicured green to get a putted ball to roll predictably, and it takes a serious investment in landscaping to make most other ball golf lies playable. But in disc golf, we get to pick our discs up off the ground before throwing them. That makes all the difference in the world.

 

[scarpfish]

Go take a look at another currently ongoing thread - Pollished courses. Till dg stops being crudely carved out of the woods with eroded tees, it will never get passed the "trailer park trash" image.

Probably has to do with most courses being free. I personally don't mind the hiking trail type courses and like that fact that it's usually free, but can anyone really image ball golfers putting up with dg type conditions.

Ball golf is a different game with different equipment and different mechanics used to complete its holes. In ball golf, the trajectory of a drive or approach is primarily vertical, therefore deep woods holes like we have in disc golf don't make a whole lot of sense.

In disc golf, there's a lot more horizontal movement involved, therefore snaking a disc through a channel with trees on either side makes for a formidable obstacle. A great number of experienced players much prefer that type of challenge to an open style park golf course with nice manicuring.

 

[scarpfish]

I would argue a few major reasons for lack of "respect" are these;
Hard to break "stoner" stigma

Nothing that I can do about it, as I myself don't use the substance that shall not be named.

Absolutely no money in the sport at all, when your last 4-5 world champs are havin to sell fundraiser discs just so they can tour thats not a good look for sponsors old and prospective alike. Scares away new money, and old.

So what do you suggest? That we start paying $30 for discs?

Needs a better sanctioning body, more consistency with tournies, better/easier way of ranking players and rating play.

Umm, we have that.

Make "majors" more of a big deal and no handicap BS for your "championship"

They tried that and Innova was losing big time money on it. Hence, the handicap BS that we saw last year.

I also believe the way a lot of course are made negatively affects peoples views as well. Specifically course in public parks that are vey close to houses and those with not enough room or that were designed poorly and had the course too close to playgrounds and areas like that.

When many of those courses went in 25+ years ago we didn't anticipate that there would one day be warp speed wide wing distance drivers in hard premium plastics that any Joe Blow with $16 in his pocket could go buy. Are you suggesting that we take said courses out?

I think dg will not get to the level OP wants until a major sponsor not rooted in dg comes in, nike for example.

And what does that do for us everyday players?

But really its gonna be very hard to improve on where we are now until we are better organized and take ourselves and dg more seriously, how can you expect the public to give you respect if you cant get thru a ound of disc without getting high?

I've been playing DG straight and sober quite successfully for more than eight years now. What am I supposed to do, shoo away players who drink?

FWIW, I know a lot of folks who can't play ball golf, rec softball or even watch their kids little league game without downing an alcoholic beverage. There's more non-DG activities about where much of this same "not so family friendly" shenanigans goes on.

 

[_.-Dut-._]

Go take a look at another currently ongoing thread - Pollished courses. Till dg stops being crudely carved out of the woods with eroded tees, it will never get passed the "trailer park trash" image.

Probably has to do with most courses being free. I personally don't mind the hiking trail type courses and like that fact that it's usually free, but can anyone really image ball golfers putting up with dg type conditions.

The carved out of the woods courses I think is one of the big drawing points for DG. If all of the courses were ball golf courses I think it would hurt the sport.

 

[Pwingles]

Nothing that I can do about it, as I myself don't use the substance that shall not be named.
Why comment on something that doesnt apply to you then? Sounds to me like youre already doing everything you can do about it by not adding to that sterotype


So what do you suggest? That we start paying $30 for discs?
Price of discs to "us" has nothing to do with this. The issue is outside revenue, and the lack of it. i.e. advertising, brand expansion, better marketing would help with this, but thats only one solution, there are potentially many

Umm, we have that.
You didnt read what i typed...I said, a "better" one, i never stated we were without an organization at all, just that it needed improved upon

They tried that and Innova was losing big time money on it. Hence, the handicap BS that we saw last year.

idgaf why they did it, for a tourney of that prestige, it is a travesty. How can you call it a championship of the US? let alone a championship of anything, when the entire format of the tournament punishes you for playing well before the damn tournament! its stupid. Im not against handicap leagues/tournies, but ffs not for a "major"

When many of those courses went in 25+ years ago we didn't anticipate that there would one day be warp speed wide wing distance drivers in hard premium plastics that any Joe Blow with $16 in his pocket could go buy. Are you suggesting that we take said courses out?

Warp speed drivers have little to do with that point. If a house is 100 feet away from the pin, speed of the driver is the least important factor in how it breaks their window, or ends up in their yard, or hits their car.

And what does that do for us everyday players?
well, medium length version;
More commercial exposure could easily lead to more/better parks or improvements to current ones
would make some headway in legitimizing DG to the public and changing the image from stoner activity to more of a mainstream and socially acceptable activity (best example is skateboarding and BMX over last 8-10 years with major companies putting more money into them, they have become wayyyy more popular to the public and also there is more capital to work with fro everyone
more companies=more competition both in technology and in price (in theory)



I've been playing DG straight and sober quite successfully for more than eight years now. What am I supposed to do, shoo away players who drink?
To that i would say this, I dont tell adults what to do. If its against the law in your area to drink, and you choose to do so, thats your choice. If you cant do it responsibly and get sloppy, and it happens at one of my leagues, or events, then thatll be the last time you can do that in that setting. FWIW, i dont have anything against those who choose to smoke pot, to me its silly that its illegal but thats a diff story. Same with people who drink. I drink. I sometimes drink a couple while playing. But im discreet, i dont drink around kids, i dont get hammered, and if im driving i drink way less if at all. For some people this is a hard task, and those people are the ruiners i speak of.
FWIW, I know a lot of folks who can't play ball golf, rec softball or even watch their kids little league game without downing an alcoholic beverage. There's more non-DG activities about where much of this same "not so family friendly" shenanigans goes on.

and..... whats your point? This topic isnt about those sports/activities...
Should we be ok with people getting high at public parks with people and children around because some MLB'er got busted for steroids? Or someone watching a ball game got drunk while watching it? makes no sense?
I appreciate your opinion, but did you really have to quote/comment on everything i said? seems like you only had an actual arguing point on one or two things, just sayin?

 

[discRabbit]

^ You crazy man...

 

[scarpfish]

Why comment on something that doesnt apply to you then? Sounds to me like youre already doing everything you can do about it by not adding to that sterotype

Well, because its a discussion forum and I can. We discuss things here.

Price of discs to "us" has nothing to do with this. The issue is outside revenue, and the lack of it. i.e. advertising, brand expansion, better marketing would help with this, but thats only one solution, there are potentially many

Again, since I've started playing, the number of places you and I have to go play has tripled without much outside revenue. Aside from local businesses or players sponsoring holes, or course installation/maintenance costs being recouped through user fees or disc sales, I don't see the benefit of any outside revenue, except to the touring pros.

You didnt read what i typed...I said, a "better" one, i never stated we were without an organization at all, just that it needed improved upon

I most certainly read what you typed. I also read this....

Amen! Are you still a PDGA member?

Never have been

Therefore, how do you know what's wrong with the existing organization if you've never joined it? I hear plenty of complaints about the PDGA from PDGA haters, (many of whom like yourself have never joined) but I've never seen any of them provide a viable alternative to it and then go out and implement it. Talk is cheap.

idgaf why they did it, for a tourney of that prestige, it is a travesty. How can you call it a championship of the US? let alone a championship of anything, when the entire format of the tournament punishes you for playing well before the damn tournament! its stupid. Im not against handicap leagues/tournies, but ffs not for a "major"

I didn't like the format change either, but after a decade of trying it the traditional way, Innova concluded that it wasn't working in terms of dollars and cents. The fact is, the plastic is selling itself, not the pros getting sponsorships from its sales. The pros should be thankful the USDGC went on as long as it did.

Warp speed drivers have little to do with that point. If a house is 100 feet away from the pin, speed of the driver is the least important factor in how it breaks their window, or ends up in their yard, or hits their car.

Anyone with a basic understanding of physics would know that they most certainly do. Back when all we had were blunt edged discs in base plastic, discs didn't go as far, move as erratically when some noob throwing a Speed 13 driver with no sense of control is throwing it.

And I might remind everyone that in those situations where due to changes in DG technology, a hole that might have been an okay proposition 20 years ago, but is perhaps dangerous today, can in many circumstances be redesigned at a relatively cheap cost, due to the non intrusive nature of the equipment.

More commercial exposure could easily lead to more/better parks or improvements to current ones
would make some headway in legitimizing DG to the public and changing the image from stoner activity to more of a mainstream and socially acceptable activity (best example is skateboarding and BMX over last 8-10 years with major companies putting more money into them, they have become wayyyy more popular to the public and also there is more capital to work with fro everyone

Yet, I cannot name a pro skateboarder other than Tony Hawk (who is retired), and not a single pro BMX rider. I have no desire to watch them. Those sports also have an element of danger to them which makes them appealing to young males, and appealing to put on television, not to mention that they involve equipment expenditures that are much more expensive than ours. Disc golf, not so much.

more companies=more competition both in technology and in price (in theory)

But not necessarily in practice, particularly when a new "competitor" infiltrates the market by buying out an existing company instead of doing their own thing. Nike has been known to do this in the past (Converse shoes), which is why some here wouldn't be so happy about getting them on board.

But as for more companies getting into the game, well, if you've read the equipment forum as of late, you'll see that such is already happening. MVP, Legacy, Westside, Vibram to name just a few. I'm sure in coming years, we'll see more.

To that i would say this, I dont tell adults what to do. If its against the law in your area to drink, and you choose to do so, thats your choice. If you cant do it responsibly and get sloppy, and it happens at one of my leagues, or events, then thatll be the last time you can do that in that setting. FWIW, i dont have anything against those who choose to smoke pot, to me its silly that its illegal but thats a diff story. Same with people who drink. I drink. I sometimes drink a couple while playing. But im discreet, i dont drink around kids, i dont get hammered, and if im driving i drink way less if at all. For some people this is a hard task, and those people are the ruiners i speak of.

But the laws in many jurisdictions don't say you're allowed to drink discreetly or in small amounts in public parks. They say you can't drink AT ALL. By drinking a little and hiding your beer in a coozie, aren't you giving the guy who drinks a lot, in front of kids, throws his beer cans on the ground and risks the lives of everyone he passes on the way home with a .15 BAC the notion that its okay. Hence aren't you contributing to the problem?

and..... whats your point? This topic isnt about those sports/activities...
Should we be ok with people getting high at public parks with people and children around because some MLB'er got busted for steroids? Or someone watching a ball game got drunk while watching it? makes no sense?

No, we shouldn't, but the facts are that those things do indeed happen, and more often than we'd like to admit.

The OP is concerned why we as a sport don't get any respect based on some self-acquired inferiority complex, and those of you who agree with him in some context seem to share his sentiment, which leads to the crux of my point here. The root of the sanctimony regarding our sport and its image isn't coming from outsiders. Its coming from a certain segment of existing players who for whatever reason can't stand the fact that something they enjoy happens to also be enjoyed by people whom they would otherwise not associate with.

The fact is, the overwhelming majority of people I've played disc golf with over the years like their barley pop. Some even like to spark up a little bud too. But not once have I ever been enticed to share that aspect of our sport's culture with them, and not once have I ever let them engaging in it diminish my enjoyment of the game.

I appreciate your opinion, but did you really have to quote/comment on everything i said? seems like you only had an actual arguing point on one or two things, just sayin?

Did you have to use that eye straining red text to retort? Your answer to that is my answer.

 

[KniceZ]

I'm not advocating that DG courses have to be wide open. In fact I get bored with my home course cause it's basically wide open.

But there's no reason we can't have challenging courses which require accurate line shaping without them looking like someone bush-hogged them out, briar patches if you get out of the fairway, and having roots sticking out in the eroded dirt tee boxes.

I'm not the one wondering why the general public doesn't respect DG. I'm was just trying to provide a possible reason!

 

[T.Hizzle]

I'm not advocating that DG courses have to be wide open. In fact I get bored with my home course cause it's basically wide open.

But there's no reason we can't have challenging courses which require accurate line shaping without them looking like someone bush-hogged them out, briar patches if you get out of the fairway, and having roots sticking out in the eroded dirt tee boxes.

I'm not the one wondering why the general public doesn't respect DG. I'm was just trying to provide a possible reason!

Go play Heartwood in Northern Wisconsin if you want a tightly wooded course. It's like playing Hole 4 at BRP on steroids. The lodging is for kings as well.
Picture #1 is hole 18 fairway and Pictures 2&3 Hole 23

 

[T.Hizzle]

Therefore, how do you know what's wrong with the existing organization if you've never joined it? I hear plenty of complaints about the PDGA from PDGA haters, (many of whom like yourself have never joined) but I've never seen any of them provide a viable alternative to it and then go out and implement it. Talk is cheap.

As a former PDGA member, I know that many people are frustrated with the rising costs and fees. How many of you have ever sat in a 4 hour PDGA board Summit meeting? I have. It was real interesting to say the least. There are many reasons to join or not to join. I just wasn't seeing any returns on my dues to make it worthwhile.

I think the only thing that will make the PDGA promote the "sport" with more ferocity is competition. Until another group such a USADGA starts up, for the amateur players. Things will remain status quo.

 

[Pwingles]

So your argument that outside revenue wouldnt help, is that, its done ok without it? Seems silly.

I previously didnt play enough events for it to be worth it for me to join PDGA. I will likely play several more events this year, and it will likely be a financial advantage for me to join, so I probably will.

Just because i am not a member, doesnt mean they dont have room to improve on some things. I dont have all the answers, and I dont pretend to.

We obviously agree for different reasons on USDGC so ill stop talking about it.

Do warp speed drivers go farther...yes. At Oak Grove park in my home town, where the longest hole might possibly be 260, and its surrounded by fenced in back yards and houses, not 50 feet off the fairway. No, it doesnt matter if its a nuke or a leopard, if you shank it, its hitting a house. In some cases youre correct, the course was surpassed by disc technology. In other cases, its poor planning, or a combination of both. Do they need to be removed? Maybe some of them in extreme cases, i have no clue. But what can happen is people need to really stop putting in courses like this if they can help it. Obviously a course in a not so convenient area is better than no course tho so its a tough problem to solve completely.

Just because you personally dont know a handful of skaters names, doesnt mean that marketing campaign didnt appeal to a ton of other people (cuz it did) But you are right in the reasoning of why they were most likely popular and caught on, element of danger and such. Doesnt mean a different crowd wouldnt be into DG if it were marketed properly.

As far as me choosing to drink even tho its not legal, and another guy who does all of the things you mentioned, that is apples and oranges, since that guy would likely not need my encouragement to drink if thats how he handles himself when he does. Im not going to act like me drinking discreetly is any more or less against the law then what your fictional guy is doing. But I am making a conscious choice to drink, and also to do it as responsibly as i can. That gentleman is not. Its a time and place thing. I am aware of when its ok to pound 10 beers and act like a nut. I am also aware of when and where its not OK, that is the difference.

As far as you not smoking or drinking with people when you play, good for you (not sarcasm). But im not judging the people that do that either, all im saying is basically, handle your sh!t like an adult. If thats too hard, you shouldnt be doing it.

red text, sorry, i dont know how to multi quote like you did, so thats what i did.

 

[Mind Expansi0n]

Those look like a 4-lane highway compared to the 'tight' fairways here:

Go play Heartwood in Northern Wisconsin if you want a tightly wooded course. It's like playing Hole 4 at BRP on steroids. The lodging is for kings as well.
Picture #1 is hole 18 fairway and Pictures 2&3 Hole 23

 

[thrembo]

I have seen our sport go from virtualy no basket courses, to several thousand, and from 0 golf specific discs to several hundred, in a very short period of time (35 years). We got our 1st basket course in my area in 1979 (West Park) and golf specific discs soon after. We thought that we were finaly getting some respect back then! I moved to Ann Arbor in 1987, and there was 1 nine hole course in the immediate area. Then boom! Hudson Mills, The Great Lakes Open, A combined pro and am worlds with 72 holes on site! Kensington, etc, etc. I moved to Florida in 1999, and there was no course in Port Charlotte, and only 2 within a 100 mile radius. now There is at least 10.

That seems like some pretty good growth to me. As for the respect, Well, ball golf is taking us seriously now, and puting in courses to try and generate some income in these trying economic times. When bolf takes us seriously more respect will surely follow. I think the future of our sport is in pay to play courses. Sure, free is good, but the pay courses that I have played on have been been very well maintained. I prefer "rustic" courses myself vs ball golf style courses, but there is room for both.

No matter what, you are always going to have smokers, drinkers, litterers, db's, and aholes in disc golf, and everywhere else. Nothing you can do about that. The growth is there, and respect for our sport is coming. Enjoy it. Its been a hell of a ride so far!