Paint markers to decorate?

[It'sNotAnheuser]

Sorry, not a dyeing question, but still a disc decoration/personalization question.

I bought some Innova factory seconds and they are stamped the same with a special F2 stamp that doesn't say the model or flight numbers

Several discs are on the same plastic (2 Champions, 3 Stars) and the 2 Champions are the same color (blue) but not the same mold.

I could label them with Sharpies with name+ flight numbers, but I'm feeling more artistic.

I have Pintar acrylic paint markers (https://www.amazon.com/PINTAR-Acrylic-Painting-Vibrant-Resistant/dp/B07DP1WXH7 could I use those to decorate the top of the discs?

On a trial inside a disc, the paint didn't have a thickness I could detect when I run my finger over it, but I sort of feel a less smooth texture over a large patch.

Will it change the flight characteristics? It feels like scuffs and scratches from use would have more impact.

I'm not sure how durable a paint job would be, I'm guessing it would get scratched off over time...

Can I also remover those F2 stamps with acetone?

Off looking for inspirations pictures of leopards...

 

[txmxer]

Sorry, not a dyeing question, but still a disc decoration/personalization question.

I bought some Innova factory seconds and they are stamped the same with a special F2 stamp that doesn't say the model or flight numbers

Several discs are on the same plastic (2 Champions, 3 Stars) and the 2 Champions are the same color (blue) but not the same mold.

I could label them with Sharpies with name+ flight numbers, but I'm feeling more artistic.

I have Pintar acrylic paint markers (https://www.amazon.com/PINTAR-Acrylic-Painting-Vibrant-Resistant/dp/B07DP1WXH7 could I use those to decorate the top of the discs?

On a trial inside a disc, the paint didn't have a thickness I could detect when I run my finger over it, but I sort of feel a less smooth texture over a large patch.

Will it change the flight characteristics? It feels like scuffs and scratches from use would have more impact.

I'm not sure how durable a paint job would be, I'm guessing it would get scratched off over time...

Can I also remover those F2 stamps with acetone?

Off looking for inspirations pictures of leopards...

Any paint on top of the disc could be an issue with some. A stain or dye isn't an issue, but paint of any type should be avoided IMO.

I say this because a dude commented on my glow tape once. Did not protest as I was DFL, but it was an opportunity if someone wanted to make it an issue.

A rough spot is "noticeable thickness". If I can touch it and tell something is there, I would avoid it.

Does any of this affect flight in a meaningful way? No. I suppose if you painted the entire top of a disc it could alter its flight, but not in a good way.

Paint would add weight. That's generally a negative. But, I can't tell any difference in how a disc flies with a couple of pieces of glow tape.

A guy I knew glued a quarter to the top center of a Beast. (there is a back story, but I don't really know it). Anyway, it did not significantly alter its flight

 

[biscoe]

Paint markers no bueno by the letter of the law.

 

[Steve West]

General question:


Why do people want to mess with their sports equipment?

Or,

Why do people want to throw art at trees and take the chance of losing it?

Or,

Why is it so important for decorated discs to be legal? Can't the "throwers" be different than the "showers".

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

I have Pintar acrylic paint markers (https://www.amazon.com/PINTAR-Acrylic-Painting-Vibrant-Resistant/dp/B07DP1WXH7 could I use those to decorate the top of the discs?

I have been marking discs with paint markers for years. No one has ever said anything about it except to comment on the artwork. It doesn't affect the flight. It has no detectable thickness.

 

[kyflash]

General question:


Why do people want to mess with their sports equipment?

Or,

Why do people want to throw art at trees and take the chance of losing it?

Or,

Why is it so important for decorated discs to be legal? Can't the "throwers" be different than the "showers".

Join Date: Oct 2022

Posts: 4

Niced 4 Times in 3 Posts





Default Paint markers to decorate?


Sorry, not a dyeing question, but still a disc decoration/personalization question.

I bought some Innova factory seconds and they are stamped the same with a special F2 stamp that doesn't say the model or flight numbers

Several discs are on the same plastic (2 Champions, 3 Stars) and the 2 Champions are the same color (blue) but not the same mold.

I could label them with Sharpies with name+ flight numbers, but I'm feeling more artistic.

 

[BillFleming]

Per the rules: 813.01 Illegal Disc
(bolding mine for emphasis)

C. Other modifications to a disc after production make the disc illegal, including but not limited to:
1. Modifying the disc in a way that alters its original flight characteristics;
2. Excessively sanding the disc;
3. Etching, carving, or engraving the disc;
4. Adding a material of a detectable thickness such as paint.

So the PDGA considers paint a no-no. But C.4. can be questionable. It seems to say two different things. 1 - has to be detectable thickness and 2- paint isn't allowed. But sometimes paint is so thin that it can't be detected.

That said, it is rare for anyone to check player's discs for legality. It's usually the obvious discs that get called out....don't play with a Turbo Putter or Aerobie Epic (I think that is the one that is banned).

My Opinion: The rule is confusing....is paint allowed or not? Also, why can't you add a thin layer of paint that really can't be felt; yet you can wipe off the stamp. The stamp has a detectable thickness, but that is how the disc got approved....so when you remove the stamp aren't you altering the flight characteristics? Like adding paint would do (supposedly)?

 

[stamp-connection]

As long as its not a water-based paint, and its something that's for non-porous materials. Then You should be ok.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

As long as its not a water-based paint, and its something that's for non-porous materials. Then You should be ok.

Just to be clear, the criteria is whether (or not) the modification has detectable thickness.

813.01 Illegal Disc
Discs used in play must be approved by the PDGA and meet all of the conditions set forth in the PDGA Technical Standards. For a list of approved discs, see https://pdga.com/technical-standards/equipment-certification/discs
Allowed modifications to a disc after production are limited to:
Wear and tear from usage during play;
Moderate sanding to address wear and tear or small molding imperfections;
Marking with dye or permanent marker ink.
Other modifications to a disc after production make the disc illegal, including but not limited to:
Modifying the disc in a way that alters its original flight characteristics;
Excessively sanding the disc;
Etching, carving, or engraving the disc;
Adding a material of a detectable thickness such as paint.
Intentionally deforming a disc such that it is not in a circular, saucer-like configuration.
When night or snow play has been announced by the Director, players are allowed to add a material or device to assist in finding the disc.
A disc which is cracked or has a hole in it is illegal.
A disc that is questioned by another player or an Official is illegal unless it is subsequently approved by the Director.
A player who throws an illegal disc during play receives two penalty throws. A player who repeatedly throws an illegal disc may be subject to disqualification in accordance with Section 3.03 of the PDGA Competition Manual.
All discs used in play, except mini marker discs, must be identifiably marked. A player receives a warning for the first throw of an unmarked disc. A player receives one penalty throw for each subsequent throw of an unmarked disc.

If TD can run their finger/nail over the paint, dye. ink, whatever... and feel it, it's not a legal disc, regardless whether the substance is for non-porous material, or not.

 

[BillFleming]

Just to be clear, the criteria is whether (or not) the modification has detectable thickness.



If TD can run their finger/nail over the paint, dye. ink, whatever... and feel it, it's not a legal disc, regardless whether the substance is for non-porous material, or not.

It doesn't say "some paint". It makes all paint illegal.

Adding a material of a detectable thickness such as paint.

The wording "such as paint" means that PDGA considers paint a "material of a detectable thickness". Otherwise, it would say 'such as some paints'.

 

[glassila]

Can a person's fingers detect a single layer of paint? If not then painting a disc would not be illegal at all.

813.01 does not say that painting a disc is illegal, it says that adding a material of detectable thickness is illegal.

There have been a few threads on the illegality of painting a disc, but I don't remember anyone actually testing whether a detectable thickness occurs when painting a disc.

I have no idea how thick the acrylic paint markers are, but common enamal wall paint is 1/500 of an inch thick or about 1/2 the thickness copy paper. Can fingers detect that???

 

[txmxer]

Can a person's fingers detect a single layer of paint? If not then painting a disc would not be illegal at all.

813.01 does not say that painting a disc is illegal, it says that adding a material of detectable thickness is illegal.

There have been a few threads on the illegality of painting a disc, but I don't remember anyone actually testing whether a detectable thickness occurs when painting a disc.

I have no idea how thick the acrylic paint markers are, but common enamal wall paint is 1/500 of an inch thick or about 1/2 the thickness copy paper. Can fingers detect that???

I'd say it is possible if there is an edge.

But, it would only be an issue if one of your competitors was petty and chose to protest.

Fortunately there are no disc golfers who would be that petty.

 

[biscoe]

Can a person's fingers detect a single layer of paint? If not then painting a disc would not be illegal at all.

813.01 does not say that painting a disc is illegal, it says that adding a material of detectable thickness is illegal.

There have been a few threads on the illegality of painting a disc, but I don't remember anyone actually testing whether a detectable thickness occurs when painting a disc.

I have no idea how thick the acrylic paint markers are, but common enamal wall paint is 1/500 of an inch thick or about 1/2 the thickness copy paper. Can fingers detect that???

It clearly cites paint as a material of detectable thickness. No need for a test when paint is clearly delineated as illegal.

 

[BillFleming]

I agree with TXMxer above.....think about it, how many times have you seen a TD go through player's bags checking for illegal discs? I've never seen it happen. There would have to be an obvious issue for someone to call the violation. Think about how many things can cause a disc to be illegal:

Modifying the disc in a way that alters its original flight characteristics;
Excessively sanding the disc;
Etching, carving, or engraving the disc;
Adding a material of a detectable thickness such as paint.
Intentionally deforming a disc such that it is not in a circular, saucer-like configuration.

Is anyone really checking that a disc flies per its flight numbers?
Is anyone really checking that a disc hasn't been over sanded?
Is anyone really checking if a disc has been heated/bent/changed to affect its flight?

How many players have discs with small cracks or holes in them? Those aren't legal...but I'm sure some players use ones like that....especially here in Arizona where a thorn can create a hole in a disc.

Heck....how about all the post production dyed discs? How many dyers have removed the stamp? The stamp has detectable thickness, but is approved that way....so removing the stamp should violate the rules as it could be claimed that removing a stamp alters the flight.

How many people throw their new discs against objects to break them in? That changes the original flight characteristics and isn't due to normal wear and tear.

As TXMXer says above....it's not likely anyone is going to call you out on it, unless it is super obvious.

 

[Brockness Monster]

I would like to point out that the rules use paint as an example material that could potentially have a detectable thickness. It in fact does not definitively say that 'paint is not allowed'. That is the phrase that would need to used to completely ban the use of paint products.

 

[BillFleming]

I would like to point out that the rules use paint as an example material that could potentially have a detectable thickness. It in fact does not definitively say that 'paint is not allowed'. That is the phrase that would need to used to completely ban the use of paint products.

The rule states:

Adding a material of a detectable thickness such as paint.

So, by saying "such as paint" indicates the PDGA considers paint to be a material of a detectable thickness. It doesn't say "such as some paint", it doesn't say "such as thickly applied paint".

 

[Brockness Monster]

The rule states:

Adding a material of a detectable thickness such as paint.

So, by saying "such as paint" indicates the PDGA considers paint to be a material of a detectable thickness. It doesn't say "such as some paint", it doesn't say "such as thickly applied paint".

I disagree, just because it is used as an example does not mean it is instantly banned. You can apply a paint at undetectable thickness with an airbrush. Why would that be banned.

 

[glassila]

Adding a material of a detectable thickness such as paint.

I think the PDGA said "such as paint" just to give an example of a material that could be illegal if its application created a detectable thickness.

They could just have easily said "Adding a material of a detectable thickness such as: lacquer, varnish, tape, stickers, glue, polyurethane, paint, etc."

Any material that adds a detectable thickness is illegal, NOT just paint and paint is not illegal if it's not of a detectable thickness.

 

[txmxer]

Adding a material of a detectable thickness such as paint.

I think the PDGA said "such as paint" just to give an example of a material that could be illegal if its application created a detectable thickness.

They could just have easily said "Adding a material of a detectable thickness such as: lacquer, varnish, tape, stickers, glue, polyurethane, paint, etc."

Any material that adds a detectable thickness is illegal, NOT just paint and paint is not illegal if it's not of a detectable thickness.

This gets into the intent of the author. I'd say it could go either way as to intent.

As to the previously asked question of "why", that's also a question for the author.

If you have paint on a disc and someone protests you even if you believe it is "not detectable", then you are putting your fate in the hands of someone else in the RARE event someone might choose to protest.

But, there are no petty disc golfers, so a protest will never happen.

 

[BillFleming]

Welllllll, we could move/put this into the Rules part of the forum. There are folks from the Rules Committee that respond there and we would find an 'official' answer.