Par?

[Clumsy Fumbles]

I've been wondering exactly how they determine what par is for a hole? I know yardage, terrain, slope and obstacles help but I want to know exactly how they do it?
I've played some holes that were under 200 feet to the chain and some that were 725 feet to the chain and they both were par 3's.

 

[aardvarkious]

I played in a park the other day that had a wide open, 310' hole that was marked as a par 5. Yikes!

Anyways, here is a good place to start:

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/ParGuidelines.pdf

Although use common sense with this. For example, I am putting in a course designed for ~900 rated players. The first hole is 430', so it should be a par 4. However, it goes down a huge hill with zero trees on it. About 25' before the basket, there is very very thick bush. The basket is in a pocket that is about 15' wide and 30' deep. A 900 rated player with a great rip and perfect line could quite possibly ace the hole. If they rip it off the tee and hit the pocket on their drive, it is an easy 2. If they give a hard rip, but miss the pocket and end up in the bush, it is a difficult 4 and conceivably a 6 or worse. If they lay up and land before the bushes, it is only a mildly difficult 3. Since this hole is aceable, 2's are quite possible, and 3's are very doable if you layup, I made it a par 3 despite this chart saying it should be a par 4.

 

[bradharris]

There is no exact science to defining par. A lot of people still subscribe to the par 3 mentality that everything is par 3. As courses are built bigger and longer, that concept is slowly going away though. The important thing to consider is how a particular hole plays for the caliber player it was designed for.

 

[DavidSauls]

There are dozens of threads about this, some currently active.

One answer to "...how exactly do they do it?" is, by any of a number of different methods, sometimes including the course designer's whims.

Be forewarned that the different methods, and importance of "par", are hotly debated.

 

[bombmk]

And to be clear, even if it might go without saying:
Par has no relevance with regards to the rules.

 

[mashnut]

And to be clear, even if it might go without saying:
Par has no relevance with regards to the rules.

Nope. Par is important when people show up late, here's the wording from 1.5B in the competition manual:

If a player is not present to throw when it is his or her turn, the scorekeeper shall allow 30 seconds. If the player has not thrown after the 30 seconds has elapsed, a score of par plus four is to be entered for that hole. This procedure continues on any subsequent holes for which a player is absent. No holes shall be replayed.

One of the ways this could come into play is on a really tough hole to start a round. If you're a player who knows they're going to likely card an 8 or worse on the hole and the TD has marked all holes as par 3, you can just show up after that hole and take a 7. If the TD had followed PDGA par guidelines and called it a par 5, you'd take a 9 instead for being late.

 

[joshmo65]

And to be clear, even if it might go without saying:
Par has no relevance with regards to the rules.

Incorrect!

From the competition manual: 1.5.1

If a player is not present to throw when it is his or her turn, the scorekeeper shall allow 30 seconds. If the player has not thrown after the 30 seconds has elapsed, a score of par plus four is to be entered for that hole. This procedure continues on any subsequent holes for which a player is absent.

 

[joshmo65]

Nope. Par is important when people show up late, here's the wording from 1.5B in the competition manual:

:wall:

 

[Cgkdisc]

It's not Casual Friday yet to discuss.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I played in a park the other day that had a wide open, 310' hole that was marked as a par 5. Yikes!

Anyways, here is a good place to start:

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/ParGuidelines.pdf

Although use common sense with this. For example, I am putting in a course designed for ~900 rated players. The first hole is 430', so it should be a par 4. However, it goes down a huge hill with zero trees on it. About 25' before the basket, there is very very thick bush. The basket is in a pocket that is about 15' wide and 30' deep. A 900 rated player with a great rip and perfect line could quite possibly ace the hole. If they rip it off the tee and hit the pocket on their drive, it is an easy 2. If they give a hard rip, but miss the pocket and end up in the bush, it is a difficult 4 and conceivably a 6 or worse. If they lay up and land before the bushes, it is only a mildly difficult 3. Since this hole is aceable, 2's are quite possible, and 3's are very doable if you layup, I made it a par 3 despite this chart saying it should be a par 4.

Sounds like if you adjust for elevation, the effective length of your hole will fall into the par 3 range on the chart. Multiply elevation between tee and pin by 3 to adjust hole length.

 

[aardvarkious]

Sounds like if you adjust for elevation, the effective length of your hole will fall into the par 3 range on the chart. Multiply elevation between tee and pin by 3 to adjust hole length.

Interesting, I haven't seen that rule of thumb anywhere. Now I hope I just remember it next time I use the chart...

 

[Cgkdisc]

It's at the bottom of this PDGA design document:
http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/PDGASkillGuides2009.pdf

 

[jeverett]

Interesting, I haven't seen that rule of thumb anywhere. Now I hope I just remember it next time I use the chart...

@Aardvarkious, it's kinda off-topic, but you might also consider referencing other methods for determining par based on distance (besides the PDGA guidelines).. for example Close-Range Par (CR Par). In my opinion it's a little more accurate than the PDGA guideline, as it takes into account actual 'accurate' drive estimates for players at each skill level.

https://sites.google.com/site/discgolfcoursedesign/Home/par/CRpar

At 430ft. distance, at the white (averaged 900-rated player) level that particular hole would need roughly 17 feet of elevation change to qualify as a par 3 by CR Par standards. By PDGA standards, for a lightly-wooded hole at the white level the hole would need only 10 feet of elevation change to qualify as a par 3.. so the two methods are pretty close.

 

[bombmk]

:wall:

Allow me to repeat that in regards to myself.

:wall:

 

[zenbot]

Par is whatever I say it is. I've got one hole that's a par 23 and yesterday I damn near birdied the sucker.

-Willie Nelson

 

[simpletwist]

Par is whatever I say it is. I've got one hole that's a par 23 and yesterday I damn near birdied the sucker.

-Willie Nelson

:thmbup:

 

[New013]

 

[notapro]

PARRR!!!!!!!!


PAR!!!!!!!!!!!!

PAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[magictenor1]

does anyone know what par for the hole on #8 is?

 

[Olorin]

Clumsy,

Great question and still relevant after all these years.

I advocate Close Range (CR) Par too.

Here are some resources for you:

• 
  Overall Par resources
• Close Range Par explanation
  
• DGCR Par threads
• The "What is Par?" thread. The granddaddy of them all.
• Why consistent par standards are needed