Pay to Play is NOT a con

[ptsawyer]

I have noticed that on the course reviews, virtually every course I have seen that has a "pay to play" fee has it listed as a "Con" in the review section, and that the scores tend to be somewhat reduced because of it. I find this somewhat odd and troubling.

Generally speaking, the cost to play these courses is less than $5 in my experience, often closer to $2 or $3. That is cheaper than a meal from McDonalds! Where else can you find any sort of entertainment at this level for this price? In virtually every case, this money goes for maintainence and improvement of the course, which is why pay to play courses such as Hudson Mills, in MI are some of the best in the US.

Seriously, as disc golfers, how cheap are we? I bet most of us are willing to shell out $20 for a new driver no problem, but when we are asked to help pay for the parks we use for our sport we label that as a negative? It makes no sense.

All courses are "pay to play" in some regard. Someone had to design and install the course, and the course also has to be maintined, whether it is through tax dollars, fundraising, or volunteers. Someone is paying. There is nothing wrong with asking the users of the course to help pay for it.

Pay to play courses are the only way that we are going to see new courses that are of extremely high quality, truly premium places to play such as the 48 holes in Hudson Mills I mentioned earlier. If the sport we love is going to continue to grow and evlove, we will need to become more welcoming to the pay to play concept.

Imagine how amazing a course could be if it had a modest fee of say $10-$15 for all you can play. I have no doubt in certain areas, you could maintain a profitable and absolutely beautiful 72 hole facility that rivals an actual golf course for this price. This is the direction I would like to see disc golf move towards, but it will only happen if disc golfers are willing to pay for it. We need to start seeing pay to play as a positive, and not a negative.

 

[oakley doakley]

Your right but I have paid to play courses that are not as nice or I didn't enjoy as much as free courses. But I completely agree with you and have no problem paying. If I liked it I will keep coming back and paying. I don't think the greatest disc golf course has been made yet. I like how more course are being made that charge people and you can see where the money goes. There used to be a course in Fort Worth, TX called Ideal golf ranch (now it's an apartment complex). It was 10 bucks to play with golf cart. The course was not that great but the fact that it was BYOB and the golf cart was great for me. Playing some disc golf and catching a buzz with the disc golf cart. I would have paid more. To bad the land was worth more then the course could generate. I am willing to pay!

 

[mobster]

The roots of disc golf is free play and one of the biggest draws for new players is the fact that free courses are all over the country. People giving a course a negative point for pay to play are most likely new players or DG purists. For the majority of golfers, we know that pay to play is a great progression for the sport and opens up much sweeter courses.

 

[ehillis]

Paying to play will also give disc golf legitimacy when compared to other sports, both because the courses will be nicer and because it will be seen more as a sport rather than just a hobby. It may also become more popular if more courses go that route because people will choose the nominal fees over something more expensive like golf or going to a game as weekend entertainment.

 

[ptsawyer]

People giving a course a negative point for pay to play are most likely new players or DG purists.

While I agree with this statement, "DG purists" need to realize that local clubs, volunteers, and tax payers are all funding their sport. If they truly are lovers of the sport, then they should welcome this progression that will bring us more and better courses.

A course that is owned by a businessman and run for profit is going to get a lot more attention and care than one that is run by a public park.

 

[Pastime]

I do agree with you on the fact that Hudson Mills is a great course and paying $2 a day or $50 a year is reasonable, but not every pay to play course is going to be as good and well maintained.

 

[ptsawyer]

I do agree with you on the fact that Hudson Mills is a great course and paying $2 a day or $50 a year is reasonable, but not every pay to play course is going to be as good and well maintained.

This is very true. There are also some abosolutely amazing free courses as well. However, I think that we could see courses that are far beyond anything that exists today, if disc golfers would be willing to embrace the format that currently exists for traditional golf, paying "greens fees" at privately held courses that are run as businesses.

If disc golfers are already resistant to paying $3-$5 at a state park, then I fear that they may resist the privatization of some courses, which could take the sport to the next level.

There will always be free courses, as there are benefits seen at parks that install courses (reduced crime, increased activity, better support for the park system, etc). But I think some of the more avid disc golfers would really appreciate a top notch facility that is similar to a traditional golf course, with a pro-shop, range, etc.

 

[Three Putt]

I do agree with you on the fact that Hudson Mills is a great course and paying $2 a day or $50 a year is reasonable, but not every pay to play course is going to be as good and well maintained.

Very true. However, as a general rule I'd expect MOST pay for play courses to be better maintained. The ones that are not will do poorly in the marketplace, so there is justice in the end.

Another point for pay for play...we get labeled as a "stoner" sport because people who really don't care about playing but are looking for a place to go get high hang around our free courses smoking dope, vandalizing our equipment, making sure the neighbors see them being stupid and once and a while throw a hyzer drive. Once you charge those knuckleheads even a nominal fee, they will go get stoned behind the Gas 'N Sip and leave us alone. I'd gladly pay $2/day or $50/year to get rid of those guys.

 

[MattK]

Pay to play a MAJOR con

Paying to play disc golf increases its legitimacy in the same way paying for a bottle of water at a fast food joint improves my dining experience. I look forward to pay-to-play disc golf in the same way I look forward to paying $7 bucks a pillow then next time I board an airplane. If somebody wants to put up a course on private land - fine, he may charge what he wishes for it, and I will never play it. Every course I've played (and I've played some very nice ones) has been on public land and financed with public funding and donations from local organizations. I think these groups do a fine job nurturing the sport, and I don't think insisting it be a cash generator would help it at all, in fact, it would hurt the sport greatly.

I am generally a believer in people paying for the public resources that they use, but not when it comes to the very basics of a public park. Disc golf does not cost what ball golf does, not nearly as much. The costs of putting in a disc golf course and maintaining it are comparable to that of playground equipment and such. I can't imagine telling the boys who use the basketball hoops in the park that it will cost 'em five bucks a game. I don't think that the man who jogs around the track should be charged the "nominal fee" of only one dollar a lap (hope you brought your wallet). I don't want the little girl who climbs on the jungle gym to be charged by the climb or by the hour (can't afford to climb - tell your mommy to make more money). And I don't want the kids who just spent several weeks worth of allowance on their first golf discs to be charged what some people here consider a paltry sum of 2, 5, 10 or 15 dollars for the right to learn the game that all of us learned for free. I realize that parks cost money, but I'd rather have my taxes going to pay for people to get exercise for free than have to pay their higher health care costs caused by them not getting out and exercising because they didn't want to spend the cash or didn't have it to spend.

I find the very idea of pay to play will hinder the growth of the sport if it becomes the norm. Just because you pay more for something doesn't make it better. But for those who really feel better to pay, I've got some fine water to sell you for only $1 per glass - it springs forth every day from my kitchen sink.

 

[ptsawyer]

I have played dozens of courses in several states as well. Some of the best courses I have ever played are free to the public.

Free courses will always play an integral part in the sport of disc golf. I am not in any way stating that we need to charge fees at all courses, or elimnate the free ones.

Disc golf is great because there is virtually no barriers for new players to join the sport. Free courses offer casual players all they would ever need to enjoy disc golf. However, I believe the pinnacle of course design, something beyond even the Hudson Mills and Idlewild type courses, could be achieved if someone was willing to invest the money.

Not everyone would want to play there, but I know that I would.

I also agree with the previous post that an unfortunate side effect of free courses is a lot of people just use it as a place to drink and smoke pot, with the disc golf being a side effect to those things.

 

[JConnell]

Paying to play disc golf increases its legitimacy in the same way paying for a bottle of water at a fast food joint improves my dining experience. I look forward to pay-to-play disc golf in the same way I look forward to paying $7 bucks a pillow then next time I board an airplane.

Nail. Head.

Lets not forget that the reviews posted on this site are by users for users. While the OP has some valid points, its bad form to make blanket statements about how others should or should not interpret the pros/cons of a course as it pertains to their review.

 

[Three Putt]

Since the Regan-era, a new breed of public official has appeared in City management. The idea that providing places to play increases the quality of life making the area more attractive to live in and therefore justifies the expenditure from the tax base is slowly disappearing. More and more conversations about recreational areas have become "and how will this pay for itself" or even the dreaded "how will we make money off this?" At the same time, Police and Fire departments have become aggressive in asking for the newest "high-tech" equipment to use for public safety. I'm not saying that is wrong, but it costs money and squeezes the amount of tax money left to support parks and recreation. Many places are looking to the parks department to now turn a profit or be eliminated as non-essential. More and more things you have taken for granted will charge a fee, in the same way that you used to be able to call up and reserve a pavilion for nothing but now you have to pay a fee in most places. Anything that the Regan-disciples can figure out a way to charge for, they will. Parking. Fenced-in playgrounds with an admission fee. Pay-for-play disc golf. In some areas this is the trend, and it is only a matter of time before we get there.

 

[ZMan44]

When I read a review I want to know if a course is pay to play and if so, how much. This can be a con in certain circumstances. While I agree that the privatazation of courses might yield a well manicured and challenging course, it will not automatically cause such a stir in the disc golf community to earn a profit. In New England there are a lot of pay to play courses that are extremely nice and players keep them busy. Here in Tennessee, if I were to open a disc golf course on my own land, charge $5 per round ($8 for all day), no one would ever come. It might be the nicest, most often-mowed, challenging disc golf course in the SE and no one would ever play it. I don't mind paying to play every now and then, but given a choice in my area, I would always choose the local free course and I would guarantee that 98% of the disc golfers around here would as well.

 

[ptsawyer]

My original post was never intended to state that every course should be pay to play. There are a lot of free parks that I love.

My main point is that if the disc golf community was more open to the idea of pay to play, that I feel the end result woud be more high caliber professionally designed courses and less courses that are designed on the back of a napkin by a park ranger that has never thrown a disc.

What % of disc golf courses are in the good/great catergory? 15%-25%? I think this could be improved.

 

[basmith42]

Donations? Pay? Donations? "Beer" Cart?

You know.. I used to play a round or two of ball golf every friday (when the schedule permitted). I payed $12-30 per round. PLUS additional money for the beer cart or at the club house.

I've never paid to play at a DG course. Its not that I'm "that cheap". In fact, I've had plans to visit a number of pay-to-play courses when I've been out of town. Unfortunately, my job doesn't always let me follow through. When researching these courses, they rarely charge more than a few dollars per person for access to the park- not per round.

I'd gladly pay a few dollars for most courses I've played. However, i'd also have higher expectations. I would expect tee signs in good repair, markers leading to the next tee, and score cards/maps to be available.

 

[ptsawyer]

I'd gladly pay a few dollars for most courses I've played. However, i'd also have higher expectations. I would expect tee signs in good repair, markers leading to the next tee, and score cards/maps to be available.[/QUOTE]

These are the exact improvements I would like to see and that I think pay to play could provide on some courses.

Again, free public courses will always be the cornerstone of disc golf.

 

[Donovan]

OK here is the dope on pay-to-play verses free play but still get funding for the parks department in my opinion.

I call it needed advertising. Why can't the tee signs be sponsored? Why can't the baskets have some logos on them? Heck Innova is getting this free advertising and selling the basket for you to post their little billboard logos as it is. Marketing/Advertising is the funding the parks have been looking for. They just haven't gotten there yet. BUT THEY WILL.

The other thing that bothers me here is people worrying about paying for disc golf. I mean, do you really think it will get to the point where all course will be pay to play. I don't believe that is even remotely possible. The public parks departments would have to pay people to collect the money. I really don't think that in most public communities they want to shell out even minimum wage for 15 hours a day in the summer (and 12 hours in the winter in the lower states of the USA) just to try to break even. Most parks will always be free. They were made for the neighborhood. What kind of uprising will that cause? Plus who is going to drive around making sure kids are not jumping the imaginary fences to keep then from sneaking in a few holes on the other side of the park.

So pay-to-play, I say, "Bring it on!" I would love to play more ball golf course like conditions and would love to have a clubhouse with pool tables and yearly memberships!!! Bring in the alcohol and the smoothie bar! I love this idea. I hope it does happen. And when I feel like playing for free, the park down the road will be there waiting for me.

 

[Midnightbiker]

If you check prices, in most places its $6 per person to play Mini-Golf. If they are willing to pay that, $2-$3 dosen't seem like much. I would like to see some pay to play courses have disc rental to introduce more people to the sport.

 

[DGtourist]

When writing a review the site asks for PROS CONS and OTHER THOUGHTS. I would say that paying would have to be there as a con. Most people recognize that paying five bucks is not as big of a deal as missing baskets. But I don't see how it can be a "pro." Now if I was getting paid to play I'd have to says that's a "Pro." For most of us, paying is a minimal con, like "parking lot gets full" or something small. However a good review would state this fact, however small, somewhere.

 

[MattK]

...Fenced-in playgrounds with an admission fee. Pay-for-play disc golf. In some areas this is the trend, and it is only a matter of time before we get there.

I've seen this trend too, and it worries me quite a bit. The more private pay to play courses spring up, the more the powers that be who run the parks will get the idea. When "For Profit Industries, Inc." sets up a disc golf course in the neighborhood and charges per round, this tells the nearby parks officials that they should be charging as well, or at least sets the precedent that they could get away with charging.

The nearest disc golf to me is in a state park that charges a toll to enter during the summer. This toll is not collected after 6PM. Guess what time all the disc golfers show up at? The last thing we need is to give the politicians the idea that disc golf can be another cash cow for them. When that happens, the free public course will cease to be free.