Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Headrick always approved of discrimination against rollers. However, I pointed out to him that rocks rolled before Rocs flew.
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Seems like you have made a lot of opinions about Winthrop and it's gold ropes without experiencing them. I think you should go see and play the roped layout. From my perspective they add an immense amount of tension and challenge as a player and they create an air of exctement and anticipation for me as a spectator.
I would just die to be able to use heavy equipment to create features for a course like ball golf architects are able to do. I also crave the quintessential property that has ponds and streams and elevation and a waterfall and large mature trees with no underbrush and so on. I have never had the pleasure of working on such a canvas. Like David Sauls said (paraphrasing) if you are lucky enough to do a course design, you probably don't get to choose the property. Someone else, probably a park department planner and or environmental/horticultural planner, will tell you which park and what part of that park the course will be. So, most designers are somewhat boxed into a corner before they begin, to a certain extent. OB can spice up a course or a hole that may be a bit lackluster and create more risk/reward shot options. I don't mind flags or stakes or rope. I got used to stakes playing ball golf. The white stakes that indicate stroke and distance really affect the players thought process on a ball golf course. Red stakes aren't stroke and distance but they usually cause a stroke to be lost. I have never heard a debate on whether this was "artificial" with relation to ball golf. To me, it is simply OB. I love the pucker factor of OB, tight fairways, thick brush and water hazards. I also like the pucker factor of relatively wide open fairways with rope or sidewalks or curb and gutter and water hazards etc. Gimmee thepucker factor. Maybe I am just a sick old man.
Isn't a thumber simply another method of manipulating the path of a disc in order to hit a certain line? Why would a designer intentionally attempt to punish these shots? Would they try to take out good anny or turn-over routes? Or nice hyzer routes? Heck, should Maple Hill build a bridge over the pond so people can throw rollers to reach the green? Or install power lines to prevent over hand shots from going over the pond?? If the landscape is well suited for a thumber why alter it? It makes me think that these designers have limited skills, and wish to punish others with better skills. Very sad.
Bottom line:
I don't only wish to punish thumber throwers, I want to punish throwers of all shots equally.
I think you are reading too much into my statement. I will comment on that, but first, I agree that as a designer I have limitations. I am willing to listen to input from people who communicate civilly and with a well thought out message. That is why I usually don't listen to top pro players when they rant at me!
Okay, enough of that. My take on thumbers (grenades etc.) is that they are legitimate disc golf shots. I do not find them as visually sttimulating as backhands or flicks, but that is a different issue. I have watched a lot of good/great thumber players circumvent the intended fairway on courses, including mine. They do this by going directly over trees that may not be fully mature or by taking shortcuts through the woods where there are high gaps in the canopy. It is the high gap shortcut through the canopy routes that prompted some of the mandos that I had instituted on a few courses. I simply wanted the thumber throwers to play the fairway rather than take shortcuts. I do take this into account while designing. My hope is that I can keep the risk/reward factor for all shots reasonably similar. This is not always possible, but it is a goal.
Bottom line:
I don't only wish to punish thumber throwers, I want to punish throwers of all shots equally.
Fair enough, and good reply. That is a reasonable approach to me. I tend to only thumber those routes when I've already launched a crappy drive off the fairway. I was thinking that you were talking about intentionally designing holes to eliminate thumber lines within normal fairways. I'm in complete agreement with your theory. :clap:
Liar. He thumbs off the pad all the time...and he wins with it.I tend to only thumber those routes when I've already launched a crappy drive off the fairway.
Stan was talking about thumbers that are off the fairway and sneaky routes up through the trees. I don't do those too often.
Hell yes I thumb off the tee pad when the shot dictates it. And I will keep throwing thumbers until my arm separates at the shoulder joint.
I find that the only people that complain about thumbers are the people I beat using them. When I blow up and lose nobody cares that I threw 32 thumbers on that round. But mostly, people get a kick out of watching thumbers. They're like the new beer on the market. Everyone is set in their ways, and makes fun of its name or label. But once they try it they are usually pretty accepting.