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Playing a tourney with your toddler

First of all your reading comprehension is lacking. The thread is about toddlers at tournaments/leagues. Not casual rounds.

My comment was related to that.

I understand that reading is hard so you like to limit it, but obviously you read the op and then my post so I thought maybe just maybe you read the other posts in the thread where we discussed non tourney/league rounds, airplanes, etc. But apparently not, you o ly read my one post and the op. Saved yourself an hour of reading I reckon.
 
I was watching the Tour de France earlier. I wonder if any of the riders ever feel the urge to strap on one of those bike child carrier seats and bring the little one along for the ride?
Pro-cycler Mark Cavendish with his baby during a casual ride.
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I want to see him use that bike seat during an actual competition! I couldn't care less about seeing him use that thing during a casual ride.
 
This TD would request that you abstain from bringing any unnecessary distractions during the event.
I'd even refund $$ if you had a last-minute babysitter issue.


Dogs and babies are a wildcard, IMO. They could be the most well-mannered at home/playground/etc. but my tourney will inevitably be that one time....... :D
 
I've brought my 5yr old to the DG course dozens of times since he was 2; but would never even consider bringing him along to a tournament, league or whatever type of setting. If the babysitter fell through and I had to eat an entry fee, so be it.
 
I caddied for a friend in the Open div. at a one day tourney not too long ago. One of the card mates had his toddler(?) in a stroller. Whereas I don't think any one of us had a problem with this and I don't think it affected anyone's round adversely, it could've easily, and I was a little surprised this was allowed by the T.D. especially in the Open div.
 
I caddied for a friend in the Open div. at a one day tourney not too long ago. One of the card mates had his toddler(?) in a stroller. Whereas I don't think any one of us had a problem with this and I don't think it affected anyone's round adversely, it could've easily, and I was a little surprised this was allowed by the T.D. especially in the Open div.

Doesn't really matter what division it is, the TD can't really prevent it. The best he can do is to make sure the player with the toddler in tow understands that the player is ultimately responsible for anything the kid does or any issues the kid might cause...e.g. if the kid does things that warrant courtesy violation warnings/penalties, the player gets them.

I've never encountered this as a TD, and I hope I never do, but if it happens I would make sure he/she was grouped in at least a 4-some at all times. That would be to give him/her the ability to walk away if the kid becomes too much of an issue and not leave the group short-handed to finish the round. I'd also be sure the player understood that to be the case along with the potential for courtesy warnings if the situation warranted.
 
I have 4 kids ranging from 1 to 7 yrs old. When I am playing a tournament, sometimes my wife will bring the kids say hi and then go play on the playground. If they were to follow the whole round, I know that it would be a distraction for my card mates and myself as well. If my 7 yr old wanted to stick around for a few holes I would let her, but then she knows to stay quiet. She would not last a whole round, though, so the only way this would be ok is if Mom is close by so when she is ready to go she can.

I have taken my kids on a casual round, though. I do not invite other disc golf friends. We usually just go as a family. Normally, we end up playing 6 holes and then end up at the playground just off the 7th fairway. I do not expect to finish the whole round. Sometimes I'll see friends at the course and they will play with us and then continue on when we stop at the playground. I do not believe that they have an issue with this scenario. If anyone did ever express concern with it, I would just tell them they can play through next time. No big deal.
 
Doesn't really matter what division it is, the TD can't really prevent it. The best he can do is to make sure the player with the toddler in tow understands that the player is ultimately responsible for anything the kid does or any issues the kid might cause...e.g. if the kid does things that warrant courtesy violation warnings/penalties, the player gets them.

I've never encountered this as a TD, and I hope I never do, but if it happens I would make sure he/she was grouped in at least a 4-some at all times. That would be to give him/her the ability to walk away if the kid becomes too much of an issue and not leave the group short-handed to finish the round. I'd also be sure the player understood that to be the case along with the potential for courtesy warnings if the situation warranted.

I'm not sure where you got that idea, but the TD certainly can ban toddlers/babies from a tourney, just like dogs, smoking, alcohol and tank tops. Nor is a card "short-handed" if someone leaves (which happens almost EVERY tournament), unless its doubles.
 
I'm not sure where you got that idea, but the TD certainly can ban toddlers/babies from a tourney, just like dogs, smoking, alcohol and tank tops. Nor is a card "short-handed" if someone leaves (which happens almost EVERY tournament), unless its doubles.

I got the idea from the rule book and 18+ years of running and playing events. Please show me the rule that allows the TD to ban toddlers/babies from the tourney. There are PDGA rule disallowing dogs, smoking, alcohol, and tank tops, but no rule preventing a player from having a child along with him during a tournament.

I'll add the caveat that in a non-sanctioned tournament, the TD can obviously do whatever he wants. I'm only speaking for PDGA sanctioned tournaments.

As for cards being "short-handed", while it isn't penalizible for players to play in a two-some (or by themselves) if someone in their group no-shows or quits during the round, it's strongly discouraged for the sake of fairness and rules enforcement. So yeah, a card can be short-handed even in singles.
 
Please show me the rule that allows the TD to ban toddlers/babies from the tourney.

Rules 3.3A and 3.3B of the PDGA Competition Manual empower TDs of PDGA sanctioned events to disqualify players for a wide range of actions.

There are PDGA rule disallowing dogs, smoking, alcohol, and tank tops, but no rule preventing a player from having a child along with him during a tournament.

While the PDGA does not explicitly ban babies, rule 3.3B states, "Actions that are in violation of this conduct include but are not limited to:" before listing examples of conduct deemed unprofessional and unsportsmanlike and thus grounds for disqualification.

The phrase "... included but not limited to:" brings discretion and subjectivity into the interpretation of the rules, like with almost any rule book or written laws that govern human activity.

Of course, I'm not an attorney, but I bet the attorneys who wrote the PDGA Rule Book inserted that open-ended phrase, "... included but not limited to:", specifically because the PDGA wanted to grant TDs the power to disqualify any player for a wide range of behaviors.

The last thing the PDGA bosses want is for random players around the world to kick up to them disputed decisions by TDs of obscure C-Tiers in Anytown, USA - that's why they included rule 3.3B. They have more important things to do with their time.

I'll add the caveat that in a non-sanctioned tournament, the TD can obviously do whatever he wants.

Totally agree that TDs of unscanctioned events can do whatever they want. But I would argue that rule 3.3 allows TDs of PDGA events to do whatever they want too, at least when it comes to interpreting the rule book.

Of course interpretation of these open-ended rules usually comes down to application of common sense, generally accepted common behavior and customs. So, if a TD disqualified a player for toting a baby around during tournament play, I can't believe the TD would encounter any resistance from many other players or from the PDGA bosses. In fact, I think the PDGA would applaud the TD for doing so.

Of the TDs I know in SoCal, almost all would, if faced with this ridiculous and highly improbable hypothetical scenario, either plead with the baby toter to do something responsible with the baby that didn't include toting it around the course during a round or offer the baby toter their money back and disqualify them.
 
Disqualification does not equate to not allowing to participate at all. I've never argued that a TD couldn't disqualify a player if his or his child's actions warranted it (it would be the logical next step if courtesy violation warnings/penalties aren't enough to correct an issue). But I don't think there's support in the rules for preemptively disqualifying a player for actions that might (or might not) happen.

I don't think the mere act of attempting to play in a tournament with a toddler/baby along in a stroller is egregious enough to warrant DQ. In a way, it's like playing a round with your cell phone ringer on. If it goes off and causes a distraction, you can be warned/penalized according to the courtesy rules. If it doesn't go off at all (or the kid doesn't make a peep), then what's the issue? In either case, it's a risk the player is taking on with (hopefully) full knowledge of the potential consequences.
 
But I don't think there's support in the rules for preemptively disqualifying a player for actions that might (or might not) happen.

Yeah, allowing a player to start a round with a baby that hasn't yet caused a problem is a grey area.

It's possible the baby wouldn't do a thing for the entire round and not affect any aspect of the tournament. It's also possible that a baby toter's cardmate might be sufficiently distracted by the presence of a vulnerable baby, no matter how quiet and unassuming that baby was.

It is a grey area. But that's why 3.3 is written the way it is. Rule 3.3 grants the TD significant support in all their discretionary decisions when it comes to disqualifying a player for any conduct deemed unprofessional and unsportsmanlike.

And if a TD didn't let a player start their round while toting a baby, I doubt a single other player or the PDGA would object.
 
I don't think the mere act of attempting to play in a tournament with a toddler/baby along in a stroller is egregious enough to warrant DQ.

Yeah, that's why I think a good TD would appeal to the player to find something to do with the baby before the round or offer them their money back so they don't get officially DQ'ed.

I also think that a big reason why Rule 3.3 grants TDs such broad support in DQ'ing players is the issue of liability. The last thing the PDGA wants is someone suing them for allowing a player to bring a baby onto a course during officially sanctioned play. A huge settlement for some awful contingency involving an injured baby would cause the PDGA's liability insurance premiums to skyrocket and would cripple a fledgling organization's ability to operate. That would certainly suck for those of us who like to play sanctioned tournaments, to be sure.
 
Recently quite a few players I haven't seen in 15-20 years on the course are showing up again to play in local events. When asked where they've been for the past years their answer is "raising my kids".

They have their priorities straight.

:thmbdown:

Do you expect the ladies to take 15-20 years off from their book clubs or shopping trips? Yeah good luck with that argument. Every parent needs a break now and then. It actually makes people better parents.

I've taken my kids to the course lots of times, but only in casual rounds. Never in a league or tourney scenario where someone else was required to be in my group. Two of my kids like to play but it's tough for them to make it through a full 18 holes, so I usually have to be willing to walk off the course before the round is complete.

I do agree, toddlers and tournaments don't mix, and calling courtesy violations would be the best way to deal with it.
 
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