Putting Sequence?

[Zphix]

My putting has gotten a lot better in the last couple of months but I'm still worlds away from where I want it to be.

I've watched pretty much every putting video that's out there on YouTube but nothing has been able to fix my issue of putting nose down. But, I think I figured out why it's happening in the first place. Basically, I think I've been putting without using my hips to drive the putt. Assuming that's the problem I'm also left figuring out what the sequence is to push with the leg and generate enough power to get the disc in the bucket.

I *THINK* I start my putt by moving my arm first AND then my back leg pushes so I end up raising the back of the disc instead of holding the nose up angle.

I used to putt like Ricky but it was extremely nose down - I started looking at Chris Dickerson because his putt looks so effortless and I was left thinking "How the hell does he generate any force?" and that's when I started to improve my putting. But now I'm back to putting nose down and hitting the front of the cage.

If I can get myself to just putt nose up even a tiny bit I will be extremely deadly.

The TLDR: for you guys that are good putters, what do you guys feel in your putt? Does your arm lag behind until you finish pushing off your back leg? Do you feel your shoulder/chest come forward to get your arm to start swinging?

 

[RowingBoats]

My putting has gotten a lot better in the last couple of months but I'm still worlds away from where I want it to be.

I've watched pretty much every putting video that's out there on YouTube but nothing has been able to fix my issue of putting nose down. But, I think I figured out why it's happening in the first place. Basically, I think I've been putting without using my hips to drive the putt. Assuming that's the problem I'm also left figuring out what the sequence is to push with the leg and generate enough power to get the disc in the bucket.

I *THINK* I start my putt by moving my arm first AND then my back leg pushes so I end up raising the back of the disc instead of holding the nose up angle.

I used to putt like Ricky but it was extremely nose down - I started looking at Chris Dickerson because his putt looks so effortless and I was left thinking "How the hell does he generate any force?" and that's when I started to improve my putting. But now I'm back to putting nose down and hitting the front of the cage.

If I can get myself to just putt nose up even a tiny bit I will be extremely deadly.

The TLDR: for you guys that are good putters, what do you guys feel in your putt? Does your arm lag behind until you finish pushing off your back leg? Do you feel your shoulder/chest come forward to get your arm to start swinging?

I don't consider myself a good putter, but I have increased my putting percentage exponentially in the past month or so. I suffered from what it looks like you are suffering from - overthinking.

Once I stopped trying to emulate forms like karate kattas, and just threw the disc itself, things became much easier. One of the major, groundbreaking mental shifts I made was to throw the back of the disc at the apex of my putting line, or a chain link itself if I am close enough. Something about visualizing the swing this way makes it very hard to fully break the sequence and detach the disc from my momentum, which was common when I was overly concerned with a rigid 'form'.

 

[dbstrat]

I don't consider myself a good putter, but I have increased my putting percentage exponentially in the past month or so. I suffered from what it looks like you are suffering from - overthinking.

Once I stopped trying to emulate forms like karate kattas, and just threw the disc itself, things became much easier. One of the major, groundbreaking mental shifts I made was to throw the back of the disc at the apex of my putting line, or a chain link itself if I am close enough. Something about visualizing the swing this way makes it very hard to fully break the sequence and detach the disc from my momentum, which was common when I was overly concerned with a rigid 'form'.

100% agree with this. Stop thinking so much, go out to your basket and start making 15 foot putts with the most natural, simplest motion that feels like "you". You shouldn't even need to think about your hips during a putt. There are 100 different ways to putt and any of them can be effective just look at all the different ways the pros putt and still bang it consistently! They aren't great putters because they correctly emulated someone else's stroke. They developed their own natural stroke.

If you are thinking about much else besides lining up consistently with your feet and picking a link as your target, quick grip check, wind check etc..., you are probably getting in your own head making it harder on yourself. Speaking from experience because I do it to myself all the time and my putting comes back to me as soon as I stop thinking so much.

 

[azplaya25]

100% agree with this. Stop thinking so much, go out to your basket and start making 15 foot putts with the most natural, simplest motion that feels like "you". You shouldn't even need to think about your hips during a putt. There are 100 different ways to putt and any of them can be effective just look at all the different ways the pros putt and still bang it consistently! They aren't great putters because they correctly emulated someone else's stroke. They developed their own natural stroke.

If you are thinking about much else besides lining up consistently with your feet and picking a link as your target, quick grip check, wind check etc..., you are probably getting in your own head making it harder on yourself. Speaking from experience because I do it to myself all the time and my putting comes back to me as soon as I stop thinking so much.

I partially agree with this, but I do think it's a good idea to figure out how to generate power for the lower body at some point. Yes - first order of business is developing a confident strike from 5 meters and in, but finding a way to get your hips involved will help you extend your range. The shifting from behind we do applies to putting as well

 

[azplaya25]

Re: shifting from behind and using your lower body - check out the lower body action on these pros on 30 foot putts:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/analysis/stevebrinster2.shtml

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/analysis/davefeldberg2.shtml

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/analysis/jayreading2.shtml

They all finish looking like they just threw a bowling ball backhand....similar to how we should be finishing our backhand drives. I read somewhere that Paul Mcbeth said his putt reminded him of throwing a bowling ball backhand

 

[ballgolfconvert]

You have to start the upswing with the legs then let the arm follow. I read something from Ken Climo which says you should feel like you are throwing a heavy weight into the basket, similar to Paul's bowling ball thought..

 

[RowingBoats]

I partially agree with this, but I do think it's a good idea to figure out how to generate power for the lower body at some point. Yes - first order of business is developing a confident strike from 5 meters and in, but finding a way to get your hips involved will help you extend your range. The shifting from behind we do applies to putting as well

Absolutely. I just think it is easy to get lost in a pattern of emulating other people's forms. I do a small weight shift even from 10 feet out. I think everyone does, naturally. I sat here a minute ago trying to actually throw putts with 100% arm and no weight shift, and it is just completely unnatural. Forcing a rigid weight shift is just as unnatural though.

To me, keeping the disc heavy and attached to all of my movements solved a bunch of my putting woes. I really can't overstate how bad my results could be when I would try to have an overly elaborate form.

Maybe I am just uniquely insane, but in my pursuits at this sport, I have quite literally forgotten that I am trying to throw a disc at times. I would basically get lost trying to do a series of yoga poses hoping it worked out.

 

[azplaya25]

Absolutely. I just think it is easy to get lost in a pattern of emulating other people's forms. I do a small weight shift even from 10 feet out. I think everyone does, naturally. I sat here a minute ago trying to actually throw putts with 100% arm and no weight shift, and it is just completely unnatural. Forcing a rigid weight shift is just as unnatural though.

To me, keeping the disc heavy and attached to all of my movements solved a bunch of my putting woes. I really can't overstate how bad my results could be when I would try to have an overly elaborate form.

Maybe I am just uniquely insane, but in my pursuits at this sport, I have quite literally forgotten that I am trying to throw a disc at times. I would basically get lost trying to do a series of yoga poses hoping it worked out.

Fantastic post, seriously. I think that is the biggest problem people have and I'm speaking from experience. You try to put together a bunch of moves where you look just like Sidewinder and totally miss what you are trying to accomplish.

My putting improved immensely after I went to a men's retreat with my church and we were playing horseshoes. I started tossing them backhand and realized I was finishing in that bowling ball up on one leg stance. As soon as I got home I started tossing some putts using my lower body like the disc was a heavy horseshoe and it was just effortless laser beams right at the basket. I actually have written on my mini "feel the weight of the disc" because it is so important on every single shot in this sport

 

[RowingBoats]

Fantastic post, seriously. I think that is the biggest problem people have and I'm speaking from experience. You try to put together a bunch of moves where you look just like Sidewinder and totally miss what you are trying to accomplish.

My putting improved immensely after I went to a men's retreat with my church and we were playing horseshoes. I started tossing them backhand and realized I was finishing in that bowling ball up on one leg stance. As soon as I got home I started tossing some putts using my lower body like the disc was a heavy horseshoe and it was just effortless laser beams right at the basket. I actually have written on my mini "feel the weight of the disc" because it is so important on every single shot in this sport

Yep. Sidewinder is also responsible for this revelation though lol. He does often mention leveraging the disc, throwing at the apex, etc...

There is just a wild combination of knowledge and practice required to understand what he is actually saying. Which, in retrospect, seems silly, because its so simple.

 

[Casey 1988]

100% agree with this. Stop thinking so much, go out to your basket and start making 15 foot putts with the most natural, simplest motion that feels like "you". You shouldn't even need to think about your hips during a putt. There are 100 different ways to putt and any of them can be effective just look at all the different ways the pros putt and still bang it consistently! They aren't great putters because they correctly emulated someone else's stroke. They developed their own natural stroke.

If you are thinking about much else besides lining up consistently with your feet and picking a link as your target, quick grip check, wind check etc..., you are probably getting in your own head making it harder on yourself. Speaking from experience because I do it to myself all the time and my putting comes back to me as soon as I stop thinking so much.

I never pick a link or a chain set, I then loose focus on the rest of my putt and I will putt with bad bad form. This is due to how I have found the chains to move too much in South Dakota and I am then chasing a link with a bobbing body. The thing I do focus on is very right edge of pole for Right hand putting due to disc stability drop at roughly the spot I want to hit the basket. I do not think too much about this part as when I do I am over focusing on the wrong part.

I have a step by step with putt that seems to help me do the putt style more consistent each time. Doing legs set right right then hands/arms and last is focus on the basket pole edge.

I then putt With my Form that is not like 99% of most other putters in the arm using the non throwing had without thumb on top as a track guide. I have yet to see others who try copy mine, do it right with the arms. Then the rest with legs is something else more common with leg push/kick and front foot pointing at pole or where pole should be in the case of floating basket.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

I never pick a link or a chain set, I then loose focus on the rest of my putt and I will putt with bad bad form. This is due to how I have found the chains to move too much in South Dakota and I am then chasing a link with a bobbing body. The thing I do focus on is very right edge of pole for Right hand putting due to disc stability drop at roughly the spot I want to hit the basket. I do not think too much about this part as when I do I am over focusing on the wrong part.

I have a step by step with putt that seems to help me do the putt style more consistent each time. Doing legs set right right then hands/arms and last is focus on the basket pole edge.

I then putt With my Form that is not like 99% of most other putters in the arm using the non throwing had without thumb on top as a track guide. I have yet to see others who try copy mine, do it right with the arms. Then the rest with legs is something else more common with leg push/kick and front foot pointing at pole or where pole should be in the case of floating basket.

I agree with the pole aiming thing. I also dislike chains because they move.

I putt straddle within 35-40'. When further out, I start off in straddle stance to take aim, then drop my left leg back into position and then make sure I push off the left foot to start the forward swing and from there it is pretty automatic as long as I properly visualized the putt beforehand. Watching Macbeth's left foot kick up on every putt is something most stagger putters should try to emulate imo. I just found that I always had longer comebacks putting stagger so I save it only for longer putts.

 

[Casey 1988]

I agree with the pole aiming thing. I also dislike chains because they move.

I putt straddle within 35-40'. When further out, I start off in straddle stance to take aim, then drop my left leg back into position and then make sure I push off the left foot to start the forward swing and from there it is pretty automatic as long as I properly visualized the putt beforehand. Watching Macbeth's left foot kick up on every putt is something most stagger putters should try to emulate imo. I just found that I always had longer comebacks putting stagger so I save it only for longer putts.

Where do you live? I only this edge of pole aim since year 2-3 sometime in there noticing how much the chains on a basket in South Dakota move as we almost always have wind of at least 10 mph.

I to the standard putt stance with feet shoulder width apart but I have found the Wysocki/McBeth leg kick/push is the best after 10-12 feet and doing a set one for that up to ~17-20 feet then going more and more until ~37-40 feet and from beyond that I use my approach disc or longer putter starting over with the leg kick/push as if I am at 10-12 out from basket.

 

[guccimane]

Fantastic post, seriously. I think that is the biggest problem people have and I'm speaking from experience. You try to put together a bunch of moves where you look just like Sidewinder and totally miss what you are trying to accomplish.

My putting improved immensely after I went to a men's retreat with my church and we were playing horseshoes. I started tossing them backhand and realized I was finishing in that bowling ball up on one leg stance. As soon as I got home I started tossing some putts using my lower body like the disc was a heavy horseshoe and it was just effortless laser beams right at the basket. I actually have written on my mini "feel the weight of the disc" because it is so important on every single shot in this sport

what really really helps me to not break the chain between lower body and arm is keeping as loose of a grip on the disc as possible in order to feel the weight of the disc. It's really tough to feel the weight of a 175g piece of plastic if i'm gorilla gripping it, and if my grip is too tight, i miss the "hit" and throw short wobblers anyway. loosen up, relax the whole body, and feel the weight pull itself out of your hand.

 

[RowingBoats]

what really really helps me to not break the chain between lower body and arm is keeping as loose of a grip on the disc as possible in order to feel the weight of the disc. It's really tough to feel the weight of a 175g piece of plastic if i'm gorilla gripping it, and if my grip is too tight, i miss the "hit" and throw short wobblers anyway. loosen up, relax the whole body, and feel the weight pull itself out of your hand.

Yep. I actually raise my thumb off the flight plate when I putt. This forces me to feel when to add spin.

 

[Casey 1988]

what really really helps me to not break the chain between lower body and arm is keeping as loose of a grip on the disc as possible in order to feel the weight of the disc. It's really tough to feel the weight of a 175g piece of plastic if i'm gorilla gripping it, and if my grip is too tight, i miss the "hit" and throw short wobblers anyway. loosen up, relax the whole body, and feel the weight pull itself out of your hand.

Yep I have a 100% different grip when putting then when driving one power slant or using a midrange, 5 speed fairway, and driving putter slot (Star shark) with a power slant with index finger knuckle on rim of disc. I putt with index finger in the concave spot of mold and if not the mold must have a big bead or medium bead that sticks out a bit on the mold and can't bee an Aviar Big bead, those feel odd. I can use no bead but then I end up putting with my midrange grip. Approach I use a Shark in Pro/Star or a #2 Upshot so I can use the mold to do putter grip for approach for most of my putts.

 

[Zphix]

Woah, didn't realize the thread had movement on it.

Really it's just super frustrating that I still deal with not being a good putter; putting is fun, I practice a lot and it just doesn't click. 2+ years later and I'm STILL dealing with the same issues.

Tried different stances, tried different grips, tried this that and the third and it still just doesn't fix the problem. Have watched every putting video that's on YouTube and still.....nothing changes.

I'm ALWAYS on the pole with every putt - the line is always there but the nose angle just cripples it before it even has a chance to go in. I don't hold the nose angle down when I bring my arm down to putt but it always comes out nose down; to the point that I have literally missed 10 footers a foot below the damn bucket (not an exaggeration).

 

[Casey 1988]

Woah, didn't realize the thread had movement on it.

Really it's just super frustrating that I still deal with not being a good putter; putting is fun, I practice a lot and it just doesn't click. 2+ years later and I'm STILL dealing with the same issues.

Tried different stances, tried different grips, tried this that and the third and it still just doesn't fix the problem. Have watched every putting video that's on YouTube and still.....nothing changes.

I'm ALWAYS on the pole with every putt - the line is always there but the nose angle just cripples it before it even has a chance to go in. I don't hold the nose angle down when I bring my arm down to putt but it always comes out nose down; to the point that I have literally missed 10 footers a foot below the damn bucket (not an exaggeration).

What helped me, I was putting at 35-40 degree angle, lots of chance on baskets for cut-though was Using the other non putting hand for a track guide, I later had to move thumb off top of disc in track guide hand to prevent the thumb from messing up the putt. Now I putt very unique to me but it works, also if in a standard putt stance with legs at shoulder width or narrower and front putting foot forward, the track guide hand will be shorter then the front leading hand and will guide me to where I need to release the disc just in front of the track hand.

 

[Zphix]

Played another round today and dropped probably 8 or 9 strokes just from bad putting; I'm usually pretty chill but I was quite pissed today.

Anyway, got home and decided to use that energy for the greater good and I started putting for hours and hours; recording videos and seeing what goes wrong.

1) My upper and lower body were/are totally disconnected. It's hard to see on video but I think I was starting my putt moving my arm to push my body forward before the leg kick and, because of that, I end up raising the back of the disc creating a nose down angle.

2) I tried something different - I tried keeping my arm long with the nose angle up and then not moving my arm at all. I had to use my legs to get the arm moving and... it worked.

3) After figuring that out I started trying to repeat the motion over and over so I don't forget it - suddenly a lot of the stuff Feldberg talked about with the grip/wobble/etc. was playing out in front of my eyes so I think I've finally started fixing the problem.

 

[dbstrat]

Woah, didn't realize the thread had movement on it.

Really it's just super frustrating that I still deal with not being a good putter; putting is fun, I practice a lot and it just doesn't click. 2+ years later and I'm STILL dealing with the same issues.

Tried different stances, tried different grips, tried this that and the third and it still just doesn't fix the problem. Have watched every putting video that's on YouTube and still.....nothing changes.

I'm ALWAYS on the pole with every putt - the line is always there but the nose angle just cripples it before it even has a chance to go in. I don't hold the nose angle down when I bring my arm down to putt but it always comes out nose down; to the point that I have literally missed 10 footers a foot below the damn bucket (not an exaggeration).

Haha, yeah I know that miss and still get it occasionally! I'm no great putter but a couple of things that have helped me improve in the past couple years.

• Watching my buddy who laser beam putts and seeing his slight nose-up stroke and trying to copy that aspect. It's a thing of beauty watching him bang 30-40ft putts hovering 3ft off the ground the entire way. I had to modify my grip to enable the slight nose-up and I'm still nowhere close to his flight but that's ok, the adjustment has made my putting a little better.
• Practicing putting into a stiff headwind. You will miss many 10ft+ headwind putts unless you can putt very flat - any nose up or nose down will almost always result in a miss. Getting more comfortable putting into a headwind improved my entire putting game and got rid of most nose down issues there.
• Someone told me to putt through the basket instead of to the basket. Like pretend the target is actually a foot or two behind the pole. I still have to remind myself of this tip regularly and it usually helps correct low misses some.

 

[Zphix]

Following up:

I doubt anybody would have ever been able to point it out on video or in person because the timing would be hard to catch BUT what was basically happening is I was only cosmetically shifting weight but not actually shifting weight in the putt.

Let me tell you guys I watched the Felbderg 2011 and 2015 clinics at least once a night since my last comment on this post and I FINALLLLLLLYYYYY got enough details out of it to figure out what was going wrong and how to correct it.

Specifically the part where he talks about shifting your weight forward onto a bent knee and then coming up with the putt - that's what I was missing. I have the leg kick and all the "cosmetic" parts (like I said) but I was not actually moving my weight into the putter so I ended up just putting all arm all the time. Honestly, I think what happened is I saw the video maybe 3-4 years ago and got so scared of falling forward in the putt that I tried teaching myself to stay back and not move my weight at all.

But nooowww, man, I feel the weight come forward and the disc/arm HAS to move and explode out. You can actually feel the counterbalance in the putting motion and I've literally never felt that before and I don't really move my arm at all which is a full 180 to what I was doing before.

And last but not least, I don't have to quit disc golf out of frustration anymore

Best thing about it is that the 3-4 years I spent putting nose down and trying to fix that issue got my muscles developed enough that I don't fall forward in the push putt and I can still putt on a straight line with the nose up.