Renting & leasing land for temporary disc golf courses

[donnyv]

I have a private course on family land with 22 baskets. I would like to see more public courses and have used my baskets in demo's at a few local parks to promote the sport. So far I have been fortunate enough to get 2 public courses in the ground at local parks that didn't have disc golf in their area. I have plans to install courses at other parks in my area, but as most planners, designers, installers, and fellow players know, it can be a very slow process to accomplish.

I'd like to know if anyone has had success or failures in setting up temporary courses on rented or leased land. In temporary, I mean only a day or two. It can be publicly or privately owned land, using the natural terrain and landscape that is already in place to avoid trailblazing that might be needed for permanent courses.

For example, there are many empty parks throughout my area. Some are larger than others. Some are state owned land. Some are county, city, or township owned. Some are privately owned. Some are maintained, while others might not be. These parks have a lot of unused land that is NOT designated for wildlife, wetlands, or necessarily "protected and off limits". It could showcase disc golf at the park level and who knows, could lead to a permanant course at that park in the future.

Another example is large parcels of unused privately owned land. Some of these areas are "rented/leased" to hunters for a fee. Some are rented out to farmers for their crops and have large sections of adjacent wooded areas which can't be farmed. Others are pretty much large unused lots (20+ acres) that are becoming overgrown and such.

Anyone ever do a temporary course thing like this? Of course it would need the landowners permission, a fee (hopefully under $250 bucks) for renting the land, and some kind of insurance (hopefully under $200 bucks)to do this. I already have the baskets and trucks/trailer to transport them. Maybe spend up to $50 for gas there and back. $500 spread out between as many people as I can get to check it out doesn't seem too steep. It would at first have to be advertised by word-of-mouth/flyers at a few courses and clubs. It would have to be on a non-tourney Sat or Sun to get more people to come out. Also, it would most likely not be a tournament. Just a chance to play a round at a "new" (but temporary) course.

Just throwing it out there to see if anyone has done this or played temporary courses set-up like this. It would probably be easier to do this at a park, but there is great potential for courses almost anywhere out here in the sticks.

~What would be your thoughts on this?
~Would you play a temp course like this?
~Why or why not is this a good idea?

Any input or Pro's and Con's are encouraged.

Thanks,
donnyv

 

[DavidSauls]

A few random thoughts.

There is an annual temporary course for a tournament at Hampton Park in Charleston, SC. It's a park that would never allow a permanent course, but allows for a terrific temporary course once a year. Innova trucks in baskets and the local club runs it, and it's hugely popular.

Someone around here (Sadjo I think) had been working on leasing some National Forest Land (I think) for a weekend camping/non-sanctioned play event. He had worked out the details but I don't know where it stands.

There used to be a tournament in Athens, GA, on private land where they set up baskets for one weekend. I never played but it had a great reputation.

This would seem most promising in public parks. Private land seems less likely to be in suitable condition for a tournament. Moreover, a parks department might try it as a demonstration, but few private land owners would be interested in a permanent course, thus no reason for a demonstration.

It's been done on golf courses too, though you're talking a lot more money.

If you're not doing a tournament but just a casual weekend demonstration, you wouldn't need a full 18 holes.

 

[scarpfish]

I've always wondered if something like this would work if you had the course up for say 2-3 weeks instead of 2-3 days, and charged for admission. Think of how many farmers there are who are making money off of corn mazes.

 

[MrFixIt]

There used to be a tournament in Athens, GA, on private land where they set up baskets for one weekend. I never played but it had a great reputation.
.

The Crucible.

 

[donnyv]

Thanks David,

I'd really like to go the route of renting park-space over renting private land. We could kill two birds with one stone if it is at a park with potential for a permanant course. Even if there would be no chance for a permanant course, a temporary course could open the doors for something else in their park system.

The private land temp courses would be more of a fun thing to do for local players who want to change it up a little. Kind of like my private course which is on and around farmland. I'll probably have any easier time talking to our local farmer friends into letting me bring the baskets. It would probably be a tough sell to most private landowners unless they really wanted the money. I can see them saying "What the heck is disc golf?" right before they grab their shotgun and say "Get the F-off my property, hippie!"
:doh:

Here in MI we have a lot of land owned by the DNR. I think they're usually classified as; State Gaming Areas, State Recreation Areas, State Parks, and State Conservation Areas. I think disc golf could be allowed in the first three and probably not allowed in the State Conservation Areas. I know that there is hunting and disc golf (Hollywoods DGC) allowed in the same areas in the Holly State Rec Area, south of Flint.

I'm not sure how it goes in terms of disc golf and the DNR though. But I do know that there is state land all over the place and that hunting season is usually only Sept-April (depending on the game). I think I also read that you are not allowed to leave anything overnite on state land. I'm pretty sure your not allowed to disrupt any foilage/trees/land either. I'll have to do some research and see if I can find a contact from the DNR.

 

[donnyv]

I've always wondered if something like this would work if you had the course up for say 2-3 weeks instead of 2-3 days, and charged for admission. Think of how many farmers there are who are making money off of corn mazes.

LOL, we built a corn maze back in 1997. Charged $2 per person but didn't make too much to keep doing it. The corn maze craze didn't come about for another ten years later but kids be wrecking it anyways and we never did it again.:thmbdown:

My friends and I sure did have fun running through it at night though
That and protecting the pumpkins from kids stealing/smashing them. Nothing like popping up from behind some hay bales and blasting those punks with paintballs while they were trying to steal them

 

[Memphis Newbie]

I have been wondering about the same thing in my area, but with a twist. I know that if private land is opened up for public use then you don't have to pay property tax on it (at least in Bartlett TN). There is a plot of 20 acres near my house that is for sale and has been for over 5 years. The plot is hilly and wooded. I have often daydreamed about approaching the owner with the proposal to install a temporary course. He/she would get a tax break and we would get to use the land until it sold.

 

[Sadjo]

I have set up temp courses at Oconee State Park in Oconee County, SC twice. Both were for the local Rotary Club's annual family fun day. The courses each year were 9 holes and designed for kids and families to play in 30 minutes...so they were really short.

I set up temp course at my kids' school each spring for a fund raiser. Same concept...short course that can be played in a short amount of time.

What DavidSauls mentioned...I have been working with some property that is owned by the National Forest Service. It is a 700 acre former tree nursery that is no longer in operation. They have two nice cabins, a event center, large picnic shelter and camping sites. I had been targeting the first weekend in May for my event. The NT Event in Augusta got moved from the last weekend in April to the first weekend in May and I decided to not run my event up against a NT less than 2 hours away.

I own 15 baskets, mostly travelers with some sports and one M14 and one Bullseye. So I wouldn't have top of the line baskets for all holes but I would have them for most. Innova has also offered to allow us use of 18 pro targets.

 

[donnyv]

I have been wondering about the same thing in my area, but with a twist. I know that if private land is opened up for public use then you don't have to pay property tax on it (at least in Bartlett TN). There is a plot of 20 acres near my house that is for sale and has been for over 5 years. The plot is hilly and wooded. I have often daydreamed about approaching the owner with the proposal to install a temporary course. He/she would get a tax break and we would get to use the land until it sold.

There's this rest stop off the highway near my house that has some sweet elevation changes on it that could be a sweet 9 hole temp course. Could probably curtail any kind of "stuff" from going on at those places.

 

[donnyv]

Hey Sadjo, couple quick questions for ya

I have set up temp courses at Oconee State Park in Oconee County, SC twice. Both were for the local Rotary Club's annual family fun day. The courses each year were 9 holes and designed for kids and families to play in 30 minutes...so they were really short.
Being a State Park, how was their reception of putting up the temporary course? Were they hesitant at first or open to recreational ideas like disc golf? Were you limited in the amount of land/holes used? Was including the local Rotary's "Family Fun Day" the thing that sealed the deal?

There is a Rotary Club near my course on Metropark land that rents out a portion of the park for weddings and special events. There is already future plans for a dg course within the same Metropark, but two miles down on the other side of the park. Should I check into this for a possible temp course even though they are going to build one in a couple years?


I set up temp course at my kids' school each spring for a fund raiser. Same concept...short course that can be played in a short amount of time.
My friend lives 1/4 mile behind the school my kids go to and she has her own dg course (an awesome one too) that my kids have played. Were there any limitations by setting it up on school property? I've researched and mapped out many schools in my area and a few have enough land for some real nice 9-hole courses within school property. There is also a middle school a half hour from me with a 9-hole permanant course but no one is allowed to play there during school hours and sports teams take up parts of the course at any given time. :doh:


What DavidSauls mentioned...I have been working with some property that is owned by the National Forest Service. It is a 700 acre former tree nursery that is no longer in operation. They have two nice cabins, a event center, large picnic shelter and camping sites. I had been targeting the first weekend in May for my event. The NT Event in Augusta got moved from the last weekend in April to the first weekend in May and I decided to not run my event up against a NT less than 2 hours away.
Are you still having your event but on a different date? How did you contact them and what (if any) issues did they have with having a temp dg course there? Where there strict rules as in where you could have the course?


I own 15 baskets, mostly travelers with some sports and one M14 and one Bullseye. So I wouldn't have top of the line baskets for all holes but I would have them for most. Innova has also offered to allow us use of 18 pro targets.
I'm in Discraft (1 hr away) and MVP (30 min away) land. How did you get Innova to offer you the use of their Pro targets? Are you close to their SC headquarters? Did you have to order a certain amount of discs and/or promote their product?

 

[donnyv]

Potential future DG Courses

Posted a few examples of maps of some public and state owned land for potential temp/perm courses...

Originally Posted by Sadjo
I have set up temp courses at Oconee State Park in Oconee County, SC twice. Both were for the local Rotary Club's annual family fun day. The courses each year were 9 holes and designed for kids and families to play in 30 minutes...so they were really short.

Being a State Park, how was their reception of putting up the temporary course? Were they hesitant at first or open to recreational ideas like disc golf? Were you limited in the amount of land/holes used? Was including the local Rotary's "Family Fun Day" the thing that sealed the deal?
WETZEL STATE PARK map

There is a Rotary Club near my course on Metropark land that rents out a portion of the park for weddings and special events. There is already future plans for a dg course within the same Metropark, but two miles down on the other side of the park. Should I check into this for a possible temp course even though they are going to build one in a couple years?
CAMP ROTARY map (within the much larger Wolcott Mill Metropark)

I set up temp course at my kids' school each spring for a fund raiser. Same concept...short course that can be played in a short amount of time.

My friend lives 1/4 mile behind the school my kids go to and she has her own dg course (an awesome one too) that my kids have played. Were there any limitations by setting it up on school property? I've researched and mapped out many schools in my area and a few have enough land for some real nice 9-hole courses within school property. There is also a middle school a half hour from me with a 9-hole permanant course but no one is allowed to play there during school hours and sports teams take up parts of the course at any given time.
ARMADA HS and TWP PARK map (different than schools mentioned above)

*These are just a sample of some public land for potential dg courses in my area. They are not actual dg courses yet*

 

[donnyv]

Freeway fun! aka "West I-69er"

There's this rest stop off the highway near my house that has some sweet elevation changes on it that could be a sweet 9 hole temp course. Could probably curtail any kind of "stuff" from going on at those places.

West I-69er DGC map

The Rest Area is perched atop a hill with the majority of the property mowed and maintained by M-DOT. This is not a real course but could easily be set-up and played with portables.

 

[New013]

This is actually something some of us in the Raleigh area are considering right now. As it stands now the city of Raleigh is in position to lease the 330 acres from the state that will become a city park that rivals anything in the country. The land is where Dorothea Dix once existed and is already used as a pseudo park by many.

You could build the most awesomenest dg course in this place and we're hoping to be able to get on board from the beginning so we can secure a spot for a course once the park begins construction. I've been thinking the best way to showcase the benefits of the park and a course is to set up a temp course now.

Other than that the Spike Hyzer tour here in the Carolinas is going to use 5 ball golf courses for events this year; as well as a few temp courses in parks that don't normally have a course.

 

[donnyv]

There is a group of guys trying to get a permanant course on Belle Isle in Detroit. They have had a couple tourneys the past couple yrs using a temp course. The state of MI has offered the city $ to turn it into a state park and would pump a ton of money into the aging city park. But, the city thinks that the state is trying to take away their jewel and refuses to even consider it even though the city could use something to save itself before it gets even worse finacially. That is Detroit city council for ya. They'd rather go bankrupt than see the "outsiders" try to help even though the city would still own it.

 

[jdawg24]

I did this and it successfully led to a permanent course in a city park in downtown Atlanta (perkerson park). I researched all possible locations (city parks) that were suitable for a course, picked the best one, laid out a design and ran a tournament in early 2007 using temp baskets, then started running a weekly league there in late 2007. For weekly events it was a small and manageable group, we weren't disturbing anyone or anything, so no permits or permission were sought nor were they technically required (except for larger events, where we did pay for permits).

Initially I had two mach lite baskets and would make sure that friends were bringing their baskets so we had enough or close to enough, and 15-20 people would come out every Wednesday evening for a competitive round. That winter we held large 50+ person tournaments once/month there and one PDGA event. In addition we also ran clinics for neighborhood groups and presented our case for a permanent course to the city parks department and to the surrounding neighborhood groups, whose consent was required. We kept setting up the course once/week for league play during daylight savings time from 2008-2011 and running regular tournaments during the winter -- before finally getting approval for the permanent course in 2011. We setup the temporary course about 150 times between league and tournament play.

The course evolved throughout the process and became quite good as we constantly experimented and tweaked it based on scoring (all of which was tracked). It was great experience in learning about design. I always knew that the temporary setup would not be completely viable for a permanent course due to usage patterns and heavy traffic in some areas, but it was manageable during events and was playable without any clearing -- which is a key point. The permanent course required us to use different land that required significant clearing and thus the layout has changed.

I'd recommend just doing it. Find a suitable location, round up some portables and run with it. We started with 2 baskets and I eventually acquired 18 baskets , which made running it much easier, although it was certainly a pain to setup/breakdown each time we used the course. The best baskets for a regular setup are Innova Travellers (light weight), but for large events we would try to find all metal course quality baskets from local/regional players whenever possible.

In our case it was an uphill battle as we were an outside group dealing with a large government unfamiliar with DG, but the neighbors came around after observing the positive impacts the course provided and all supported the effort. All of the work we put in eventually paid off as we just won an almost $50,000 matching grant to fund installation of the course during this winter.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'd skip the rest area idea. They usually forbid any kind of organized activity, because once they open that door, there's no telling who'll come in.

 

[donnyv]

I'd skip the rest area idea. They usually forbid any kind of organized activity, because once they open that door, there's no telling who'll come in.

Lol I agree. It wouldn't be a course but maybe a place to throw some plastic around for a little object course fun for those passing by since there is no course around for many miles. Just be on the lookout for dog poo.

 

[donnyv]

I did this and it successfully led to a permanent course in a city park in downtown Atlanta (perkerson park). I researched all possible locations (city parks) that were suitable for a course, picked the best one, laid out a design and ran a tournament in early 2007 using temp baskets, then started running a weekly league there in late 2007. For weekly events it was a small and manageable group, we weren't disturbing anyone or anything, so no permits or permission were sought nor were they technically required (except for larger events, where we did pay for permits).

Initially I had two mach lite baskets and would make sure that friends were bringing their baskets so we had enough or close to enough, and 15-20 people would come out every Wednesday evening for a competitive round. That winter we held large 50+ person tournaments once/month there and one PDGA event. In addition we also ran clinics for neighborhood groups and presented our case for a permanent course to the city parks department and to the surrounding neighborhood groups, whose consent was required. We kept setting up the course once/week for league play during daylight savings time from 2008-2011 and running regular tournaments during the winter -- before finally getting approval for the permanent course in 2011. We setup the temporary course about 150 times between league and tournament play.

The course evolved throughout the process and became quite good as we constantly experimented and tweaked it based on scoring (all of which was tracked). It was great experience in learning about design. I always knew that the temporary setup would not be completely viable for a permanent course due to usage patterns and heavy traffic in some areas, but it was manageable during events and was playable without any clearing -- which is a key point. The permanent course required us to use different land that required significant clearing and thus the layout has changed.

I'd recommend just doing it. Find a suitable location, round up some portables and run with it. We started with 2 baskets and I eventually acquired 18 baskets , which made running it much easier, although it was certainly a pain to setup/breakdown each time we used the course. The best baskets for a regular setup are Innova Travellers (light weight), but for large events we would try to find all metal course quality baskets from local/regional players whenever possible.

In our case it was an uphill battle as we were an outside group dealing with a large government unfamiliar with DG, but the neighbors came around after observing the positive impacts the course provided and all supported the effort. All of the work we put in eventually paid off as we just won an almost $50,000 matching grant to fund installation of the course during this winter.

^ this is what was I thinking about. Something for the parks to see to introduce them to the sport. Hopefully it wouldn't take too long to get them on board.

 

[Sadjo]

I have set up temp courses at Oconee State Park in Oconee County, SC twice. Both were for the local Rotary Club's annual family fun day. The courses each year were 9 holes and designed for kids and families to play in 30 minutes...so they were really short.

Being a State Park, how was their reception of putting up the temporary course? Were they hesitant at first or open to recreational ideas like disc golf? Were you limited in the amount of land/holes used? Was including the local Rotary's "Family Fun Day" the thing that sealed the deal?

I didn't go through the Park Ranger office. I was contracted through the club doing the event. It was a one day event and the local Rotary Club had been doing several events that weekend for a number of years.

I set up temp course at my kids' school each spring for a fund raiser. Same concept...short course that can be played in a short amount of time.

My friend lives 1/4 mile behind the school my kids go to and she has her own dg course (an awesome one too) that my kids have played. Were there any limitations by setting it up on school property? I've researched and mapped out many schools in my area and a few have enough land for some real nice 9-hole courses within school property. There is also a middle school a half hour from me with a 9-hole permanent course but no one is allowed to play there during school hours and sports teams take up parts of the course at any given time.

No limits. My wife teaches at the school and my kids attend the school. I have had discussions with the Superintendents office over the years. The assistant Superintendent plays Disc Golf. I see him with his four kids playing at local courses regularly.

What DavidSauls mentioned...I have been working with some property that is owned by the National Forest Service. It is a 700 acre former tree nursery that is no longer in operation. They have two nice cabins, a event center, large picnic shelter and camping sites. I had been targeting the first weekend in May for my event. The NT Event in Augusta got moved from the last weekend in April to the first weekend in May and I decided to not run my event up against a NT less than 2 hours away.

Are you still having your event but on a different date? How did you contact them and what (if any) issues did they have with having a temp dg course there? Where there strict rules as in where you could have the course?

I'm no longer planning that event. I am involved in every aspect of my kids lives and we have baseball, scouting, Disc Golf Kids events and other activities. Once the NT moved their event, I had no other weekend available with my work schedule and kids activity schedules.

I contacted the manager of the property directly. I have stayed with other groups at that forest service property before and set up Disc Golf before. It has just been closed to the public. The event I want to do there would be an event open to all players. No real restrictions. Mostly pack in, pack out.

I own 15 baskets, mostly travelers with some sports and one M14 and one Bullseye. So I wouldn't have top of the line baskets for all holes but I would have them for most. Innova has also offered to allow us use of 18 pro targets.

I'm in Discraft (1 hr away) and MVP (30 min away) land. How did you get Innova to offer you the use of their Pro targets? Are you close to their SC headquarters? Did you have to order a certain amount of discs and/or promote their product?

Living in SC and having someone at Innova as the state coordinator for a number of years helps. I've had an ongoing relationship with Innova and have sold at least one course a year with their baskets and some years have sold up to 3 courses...all going back to 2007. When they heard what I was planning, they offered. I never asked.

I hope this information help.

 

[donnyv]

Thanks Sadjo

It's good to see your hard work has been noticed and appreciated down there in SC. I'll look into a few places up here that have the space where a temp course might work.

I hear ya on the kids. I have three that keep us busy. They like to play DG too and I get them out there a few times a year. They have their field-day in May so I can maybe set-up something for them.

Nice connection to have with Innova. I hope I could hook up with our local disc manufacturers like that some day.