Right Pec Drill

[noah1]

I wasn't planning on recording these, but figured I might as well while I'm out there.

I don't really know what I'm looking for, but here are some things I'd be interested in knowing:

1. Weight Forward -- I don't think I'm getting enough weight forward on these.
2. Does the disc take the right trajectory? from the right pec to release?
3. Do I need to be smoother?

 

[ReDisculous]

1) You are correct
2) Impossible to tell from the camera angle
3) Yes.

More importantly stop spinning while your arm is still bent. Have you done the hammer drills? Your shoulder should be relatively still until about the time the wrist wants to open (the timing of this is hard to describe, there is some overlap of these motions), then your hips should drive your shoulder powerfully around, which will pull your arm to the right and aid in the opening of the wrist/pulling the front of the disc around. All of this happens way on the right side of your body/towards the target.

Blake made a neat diagram in the Myth of disc pivot thread. You should check it out. In this video you are throwing the way a shoulder spinner does.

 

[ReDisculous]

About the weight forward thing, you need to drive it forward with the rear leg. Attempting to get it forward too soon will make it impossible to push your hips open with your rear leg late enough in the throw.

 

[JR]

The right pec drill ain't the whole truth because in a real throw you have forward momentum helping you to shift your weight forward. So the only real test is how weight forward you are at the rip in a normal throw. The only way you can be too smooth is when you power down more than you should to gain the target. I'm not comfortable guessing about the trajectory from that camera angle because the view is skewed in so many angles. I would only draw conclusions from a real throwing video because things change with added power.

 

[noah1]

I just wanted to say thanks for the feedback. I worked a bit on the hammer drills last night, and will focus on that for a bit, before getting back to the Right Pec Drill.

 

[noah1]

I was going over this and is this a problem:

Shouldn't I be over the knee and the disc out in front further by the time that front foot is planted?

 

[JR]

The arm shouldn't move forward from the reach back before the plant step touches the ground. It is a great way to induce grip locks if you pull before the plant step lands. You should be at maximum weight back stance when the plant step lands. From there you shift the weight forward and the disc should pass the right side before the elbow straightens out. Disclaimer: People have widely differing proportions so where the elbow straightens in relation to the right side of the body varies. One should never get elbow to shoulder part pointing at the target with the elbow bent fully. That can injure you for life so the elbow needs to start chopping earlier.

Your weight should be mostly above the right knee at the rip or a little later depending on your body, power and form.

 

[ReDisculous]

To add to what JR was saying, the hips don't powerfully pull the shoulder/arm until the arm is mostly open. This is one of my favorite posts on this website, notice that the hips are basically doing nothing in frames 2 and 3, and in frame 4 (notice where the arm is)they are really just getting ready to pull the upper body around.

In your video, the 2nd drill especially, you are just using your hips to move you all the way around from back to front. In reality, there needs to be a pause in the middle, which lets you get your arm where it needs to be. While your arm is going forward, you get your hips ready to pull you around, much in the same way you already do, only like, 90 degrees later, if that makes sense.

It's obvious that already know how to powerfully move your upper body with your lower body, but your're doing it at frame 1. Try to get to frame 4, and THEN uncoil.

eh what the hell....I cooked this up this morning with help from the Grand Yoda himself (Blake)
it's a diagram of the American style swing. i broke it down into six different positions.

1. turn the hips
2. turn the shoulders to perpendicular to the target & slide the disc to right pec area
3. stop the elbow and begin forearm rotation
4. skateboard kick the back leg & allow the heel to pivot
5. rotate shoulders and allow weight to come forward
6. follow through

I now accept all complaints and rotten tomatoes.

Follow up to the above post:

last night I had a brain melting phone call with Blake_T (a very interesting and personable guy on the phone). we went over the diagram I made along with Russian history, regional dietetic legacy, brain neuron development, and guitar theory.

so on to the diagram:

1. the weight of the torso needs to be over the back leg. this "position" is when you plant the front foot at the end of the X-step. It is extremely important that your nipples are facing between 150 & 180° away from the target. where you reach back with your arm is all preference. but it is better to reach back to a place where it is easiest to keep the disc close to the chest.

2. just like before hips are turning. this is the first turning element of the throw.

1 -> 2 this transfer is all feet legs and hips. everything with the arm/hand is just a guide or a passive control.
2 -> 3 is all shoulder turn but you need to start your pull at the end of "3"

1-> 3 all of the upper body movement is incidental or automatic resulting from the hip/foot movement this is also the start of the weight transfer

3 -> 4 the weight of the chest should be moving toward the front foot. the skateboard kick is not really a hard kick but it is an easy way to get the center of mass moving around to the front. also the front foot should stop rotation at 90° +/- to the target.

4 -> 5 is the proverbial Hit. the elbow stops moving toward the target and starts moving to the right (if you are a righty). This movement allows the forearm to release the wrist. also during this movement the elbow should stay between 120 & 160° (180° being a fully straightened/extended).

5 -> 6 is the follow through and the foot is not allowed to rotate towards the target. personally i try to do it on my heel for physiological reasons.

3 -> 5 is the "Power Zone" meaning that the arm is actively moving and that it is accelerating the disc.

i still think the best thing Blake said in that 3 hour phone conversation was this: FOCUS ON THE DISC

everything else, these articles/threads, diagrams what have you are just general guidelines and basically food for thought. you have to put all these things into practice and adjust slightly for whatever physiological anomaly you suffer from. I myself have a wingspan that is 4" longer than my height and thusly i can't straighten my arm/elbow without my forearm twisting slightly.

everything i'm doing here is trying to get lower powered players into the correct motions. the work from the likes of Bradley Walker and others is for making the next step into BIG D.



Here put the two together for ya. I couldn't go back and forth. Good write up.

 

[noah1]

I went out and practiced a bit and really worked on getting to frame four. In the previous video I was throwing gazelles around 63-65 paces, and went out with rocs and was throwing them between 78-85 paces.

Thanks!

 

[JR]

That's a kick ass improvement congratulations!

 

[ReDisculous]

Good job dude. If you haven't read that myth of disc pivot thread yet you really should. There's some posts in there that are really informative, they talk about the late hip rotation near the end as well, which is key for successful right pec drills

To me, a good right pec drill goes something like ; hammer drill-> well timed hip rotation.

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24903

 

[noah1]

Thanks guys.

I appreciate you pointing out the thread. I've read it and found the hip pivot stuff specifically. There's good stuff in there. Although, the drawing you put up is what made it all click.

The courses I mostly play have most holes in the 290' to 370' range. If I can constantly get a roc to 300' and a gazelle to 330', I'd be more than happy. My putting is pretty solid at 30' and in and so once I nail the distance, I really need to work on approach shots.

I've read the thread: http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24905 (Realistic Expectations) and one of the frustrating parts of the forum is it's hard to tell the difference between is this a part of the fundamentals or is this Bradley-Blake-MB territory.

 

[JR]

The more you learn the less the distinction between fundamentals and advanced stuff matters because getting from 300' to 400' almost necessitates the more advanced stuff. While it is true that trying to run before you can walk leads to face plants you also need to push beyond your capabilities at times. And 400' requires more from form. So form improvements and pushing there is mandatory for distance increases. You've been armed with a lot of great information so i don't doubt at all that you wouldn't gain D with practice as long as you aim to improve form in practice not solidify old form. Gazelle to 330' means that you'll gain a lot more D with speed 9-10 discs and the milder versions of 11 and even above.