Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
I put these two molds head to head out on the course today. Both are star, 180g. I usually bag a champion Roc3 167g, but I decided to use the 180g star to make a better comparison.
First off, the numbers. The Roc3 is listed at 5, 4, 0, 3. The Lion is listed at 5, 4, 0, 2. The only (marginal) difference is that the Lion has a very slightly deeper rim (1.4 cm, vs 1.3 for the Roc3.
I'm intimately familiar with the Roc3. I've bagged one for years. It's my main mid. I like it because it responds well to hard rips without turning, and will fade back reliably late in flight without being dumpy.
The Lion is new. I hadn't thrown it before.
For two discs with such similar flight numbers, I actually found a few differences. The Lion has a way more awkward feeling rim. It also has a little dome, whereas the Roc3 is flat. The rim and dome combined to give the Lion a somewhat uncomfortable hand feel. I didn't feel like I was getting super consistent releases with it. I grip locked it a couple times.
The Lion is finicky, plain and simple. I hate to say that, but it is. The disc doesn't respond very well to hard rips. It will bleed right and not come back. Even worse, when you try to power it down, the Lion will act beefy and just fade out. I had a hard time finding the Lion's "sweetspot". I felt like I was either throwing it too hard or not hard enough. The Lion won't pop up from a hyzer at all, but will flip over fairly easily if thrown hard and flat. Almost every shot I threw with the Lion ended up right (flipped) or left (because I didn't throw it hard enough and it died off early).
The Lion and I didn't get along. I don't like the hand feel, and the rim reminds me of a VRoc. The Lion is in an awkward position because it didn't fly well at full power, nor did it do well when powered down. I can appreciate a mid that will do one or the other well, but the Lion doesn't. I figure I threw the Lion at least 20 times today, and of those throws maybe 2 of them were really good/accurate.
No such problems with the Roc3. At 180g, it's heavier than the Roc3 I usually throw. I didn't notice the added weight being a problem. The Roc3 flew great, and went where I wanted it consistently. I had cleaner releases and overall much better results.
Max distance was probably 350' with both discs. The Lion might actually be slightly longer than the Roc3. A couple times I was able to get it 20' further. The Lion and Roc3 have the same speed and glide. Nothing really remarkable there.
Conclusions: The Roc3 is LIGHT YEARS better than the Lion. It's far more steerable, and works much better at varying power levels. The Lion seemed super unrefined and clunky. The Lion definitely has high speed turn, despite what the flight numbers would indicate. I didn't trust the Lion at all on full power rips.
Lion: 5, 4, -1, 3. More high speed turn and late fade than the factory numbers indicate. The Lion will dump left hard/prematurely if you don't put enough on it. It'll also turn over and stay there if you get too assertive.
Roc3: 5, 4, 0, 3. The Roc3 holds much steadier at high speed and on finesse shots. It has a better hand feel, and can be steered so much better than the Lion.
The Lion isn't the worst mid I've ever thrown. Given more time I could probably learn it well. That said, the Roc3 flew laps around it today. I'd have a hard time recommending the Lion to anyone. It doesn't do anything special, and the Roc3 kicks the crap out of it in every way.
First off, the numbers. The Roc3 is listed at 5, 4, 0, 3. The Lion is listed at 5, 4, 0, 2. The only (marginal) difference is that the Lion has a very slightly deeper rim (1.4 cm, vs 1.3 for the Roc3.
I'm intimately familiar with the Roc3. I've bagged one for years. It's my main mid. I like it because it responds well to hard rips without turning, and will fade back reliably late in flight without being dumpy.
The Lion is new. I hadn't thrown it before.
For two discs with such similar flight numbers, I actually found a few differences. The Lion has a way more awkward feeling rim. It also has a little dome, whereas the Roc3 is flat. The rim and dome combined to give the Lion a somewhat uncomfortable hand feel. I didn't feel like I was getting super consistent releases with it. I grip locked it a couple times.
The Lion is finicky, plain and simple. I hate to say that, but it is. The disc doesn't respond very well to hard rips. It will bleed right and not come back. Even worse, when you try to power it down, the Lion will act beefy and just fade out. I had a hard time finding the Lion's "sweetspot". I felt like I was either throwing it too hard or not hard enough. The Lion won't pop up from a hyzer at all, but will flip over fairly easily if thrown hard and flat. Almost every shot I threw with the Lion ended up right (flipped) or left (because I didn't throw it hard enough and it died off early).
The Lion and I didn't get along. I don't like the hand feel, and the rim reminds me of a VRoc. The Lion is in an awkward position because it didn't fly well at full power, nor did it do well when powered down. I can appreciate a mid that will do one or the other well, but the Lion doesn't. I figure I threw the Lion at least 20 times today, and of those throws maybe 2 of them were really good/accurate.
No such problems with the Roc3. At 180g, it's heavier than the Roc3 I usually throw. I didn't notice the added weight being a problem. The Roc3 flew great, and went where I wanted it consistently. I had cleaner releases and overall much better results.
Max distance was probably 350' with both discs. The Lion might actually be slightly longer than the Roc3. A couple times I was able to get it 20' further. The Lion and Roc3 have the same speed and glide. Nothing really remarkable there.
Conclusions: The Roc3 is LIGHT YEARS better than the Lion. It's far more steerable, and works much better at varying power levels. The Lion seemed super unrefined and clunky. The Lion definitely has high speed turn, despite what the flight numbers would indicate. I didn't trust the Lion at all on full power rips.
Lion: 5, 4, -1, 3. More high speed turn and late fade than the factory numbers indicate. The Lion will dump left hard/prematurely if you don't put enough on it. It'll also turn over and stay there if you get too assertive.
Roc3: 5, 4, 0, 3. The Roc3 holds much steadier at high speed and on finesse shots. It has a better hand feel, and can be steered so much better than the Lion.
The Lion isn't the worst mid I've ever thrown. Given more time I could probably learn it well. That said, the Roc3 flew laps around it today. I'd have a hard time recommending the Lion to anyone. It doesn't do anything special, and the Roc3 kicks the crap out of it in every way.
my only Lion is a 142g, but I can say it's blast on upshots not requiring a lot of glide
