Rule question?

[magictenor1]

A course near my house has cheap in-step baskets for the back 9. My friend and I were playing the other day and he landed on the top but the disc then fell through the top of the basket and in. Never seen that before and not possible on most baskets.

 

[joshmo65]

A course near my house has cheap in-step baskets for the back 9. My friend and I were playing the other day and he landed on the top but the disc then fell through the top of the basket and in. Never seen that before and not possible on most baskets.

Also not considered in. He must mark it and take another shot to hole out.

 

[mashnut]

Unless nobody saw it happen, then it counts.

 

[joshmo65]

Unless nobody saw it happen, then it counts.

Makes complete sense... :wall:

 

[Bamm]

Unless nobody saw it happen, then it counts.

Makes complete sense... :wall:

I understand it perfectly.

 

[JoakimBL]

Another hole's basket is a basket, but not the target. It's only the target on its own hole.

Well ...

Wrong Target. The player has holed out on a target that is not the target for the hole being played.

So it may not be the target, but is is stil a target.

Also a target can also be a mandatory if the LOP otherwise crosses the wrong side of the mandatory. So I guess you can land above 2 meters in a mandatory tree, and not get a penalty if the 2 meter rule is in effect.

 

[bombmk]

Well ...

So it may not be the target, but is is stil a target.

Also a target can also be a mandatory if the LOP otherwise crosses the wrong side of the mandatory. So I guess you can land above 2 meters in a mandatory tree, and not get a penalty if the 2 meter rule is in effect.

I would perhaps argue that the LOP is not established before you mark your lie inbounds. In case someone would actually that this idea out with on the course.

 

[egarnaat]

This happend over the weekend. (see pic) The disc was wedged between the S-hook. Am I correct in saying the hook is part of the chains so it is resting in the chains and is holed out?

 

[bradharris]

This happend over the weekend. (see pic) The disc was wedged between the S-hook. Am I correct in saying the hook is part of the chains so it is resting in the chains and is holed out?

That's the way I would rule it

 

[rd.bittle]

Yes. I would rule it that way.

 

[jeverett]

I agree. The S-hooks are a part of the chain assembly, and a disc entrapped in the chains is 'in'.

 

[Steve West]

Chains
A deflection assembly which is designed to direct a thrown disc down into the tray component of a basket target.

Chain Support
The structure from which the chains are suspended; a deflector support which often forms the top of a basket target.

802.05 Holing Out
A. Basket Targets: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom and inside wall) of the tray. It may be additionally supported by the pole. A disc that enters the target below the top of the tray or above the bottom of the chain support is not holed out.

It boils down to whether the S-hooks were "designed to direct a thrown disc down into the tray component of a basket target" or the S-hooks are part of "the structure from which the chains are suspended."

I think we can assume they were designed to direct the disc down. Besides, if they weren't it would mean that a disc that entered the target above the bottom of the S-hooks would not be "in", even if it dropped into the tray.

 

[bombmk]

"A disc is considered to be at rest once it is no longer moving as a result of the momentum imparted by the throw. A disc in water or foliage is considered to be at rest once it is moving only as a result of movement of the water, the foliage, or the wind. "

Anyone else find that to be a somewhat problematic description of what constitutes at rest?

I can't be the only one to have had roll-aways moving due to nothing else but wind? I once had a putt bounce off the front of the cage, drop down - and then the wind took it and rolled 60+ feet away on flat ground - past the basket from my position. (OB even)

Any momentum imparted on it by the throw was clearly lost the moment it hit the ground.

 

[bradharris]

"A disc is considered to be at rest once it is no longer moving as a result of the momentum imparted by the throw. A disc in water or foliage is considered to be at rest once it is moving only as a result of movement of the water, the foliage, or the wind. "

Anyone else find that to be a somewhat problematic description of what constitutes at rest?

I can't be the only one to have had roll-aways moving due to nothing else but wind? I once had a putt bounce off the front of the cage, drop down - and then the wind took it and rolled 60+ feet away on flat ground - past the basket from my position. (OB even)

Any momentum imparted on it by the throw was clearly lost the moment it hit the ground.

This exact discussion is ongoing in another thread.

Keep in mind that momentum is not necessarily forward. You can hit the ground and have the disc bounce around and it's all momentum from the throw. If, in the process, it stands up on edge and begins to roll, that is still momentum from the throw.

I can't imagine any way a disc can be propelled by wind alone. Certainly it can be aided by the wind, but there's no way the wind can actually be the only force propelling your disc forward.

 

[araytx]

This exact discussion is ongoing in another thread.

Keep in mind that momentum is not necessarily forward. You can hit the ground and have the disc bounce around and it's all momentum from the throw. If, in the process, it stands up on edge and begins to roll, that is still momentum from the throw.

I can't imagine any way a disc can be propelled by wind alone. Certainly it can be aided by the wind, but there's no way the wind can actually be the only force propelling your disc forward.

Agreed.

If someone does think the wind alone can propel a disc, then try this experiment. On a windy day, place a disc in any configuration (on edge, tilted left, tilted right, etc.) and completely still. Then see the wind "move it." After that post the video of the experiment on this thread.

 

[bombmk]

I can't imagine any way a disc can be propelled by wind alone. Certainly it can be aided by the wind, but there's no way the wind can actually be the only force propelling your disc forward.

You are going to have to trust me on this one. I hit the basket, it bounced back towards me, fell to the ground and did that "dyeing coin spin" (don't know how else to describe it) on the edge - and then it just stood up straight and started rolling away. Any momentum I imparted on it was long gone at this point.
The disc started falling to the ground 3 times during the roll - still got picked up and kept on wobbling along.
The wind was not even that insane - it was quite strong, but not a hurricane.
I think it just hit the disc just right into the back side.

There was about seven guys watching it - and laughing their asses off when it rolled OB - myself included.

 

[jeverett]

I can't imagine any way a disc can be propelled by wind alone. Certainly it can be aided by the wind, but there's no way the wind can actually be the only force propelling your disc forward.

How about something like this, then?



That disc is traveling in the entirely opposite vector from the one imparted on it by the player.

 

[bombmk]

500m roller - and its basically just started off with a soft forehand roller. Take a look at 00:50.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-plix7XMa0

 

[bradharris]

You are going to have to trust me on this one. I hit the basket, it bounced back towards me, fell to the ground and did that "dyeing coin spin" (don't know how else to describe it) on the edge - and then it just stood up straight and started rolling away. Any momentum I imparted on it was long gone at this point.
The disc started falling to the ground 3 times during the roll - still got picked up and kept on wobbling along.
The wind was not even that insane - it was quite strong, but not a hurricane.
I think it just hit the disc just right into the back side.

There was about seven guys watching it - and laughing their asses off when it rolled OB - myself included.

Was it rolling downhill? I can't even begin to picture this happening on flat ground.

 

[bradharris]

I had to reread the rule, important aspect bolded.

"A disc in water or foliage is considered to be at rest once it is moving only as a result of movement of the water, the foliage, or the wind."

This is not a general rule that applies to any throw. It applies to a throw that lands in water or in a tree or bush.

The wind aspect is essentially just saying that a disc cannot be blown out of a tree by wind.