Scorekeeping app with customizable ratings?

[shakatak]

Does anyone know of an app that calculates ratings for casual rounds using an SSA that the user can change based on the layout, weather, etc? My friend and I have both been using EasyScorecardPro for the past 7 years. Although it has been unsupported for the past 5 years or so, you could still back up your data to your Google Drive and then you'd have all of your past data when you switched phones. However, that app has recently lost the ability to communicate with Google and recover our data when we change phones so we're looking for a new app.

I've looked into a few different apps but they don't quite have the feature we're looking for. The DGCR app calculates a rating but the SSA isn't user-changeable and is based on the auto-generated SSAs on DGCR, which are always way off. I found a few other apps that generate a round rating (Infinite Discs, PDGA 2) but it's the same story with those.

In summary, we like the EasyScorecardPro app ratings because the SSA could be manually changed and it also kept ongoing ratings for each player. It used all of your rounds for the past 6 months to calculate your player rating. This allowed my group of friends to compare our scores and skills even though we live in different states and play different courses. It also showed you if you were getting better or worse.

In the past, I've exchanged emails with the developers of UDisc begging for them to add the changeable SSA feature. They said there was no demand for it so they weren't interested.

 

[BillFleming]

I don't think there is one because the PDGA's SSA/ratings are proprietary. It's even possible that the PDGA went after EasyScorecardPro and caused them to shut down.

For those apps that provide a rating, it's possible (likely) they have the permission/ability to tie-in to PDGA's rating system (like PDGA's own app does).

 

[shakatak]

I don't think there is one because the PDGA's SSA/ratings are proprietary. It's even possible that the PDGA went after EasyScorecardPro and caused them to shut down.

For those apps that provide a rating, it's possible (likely) they have the permission/ability to tie-in to PDGA's rating system (like PDGA's own app does).

I wondered if the proprietary issue is why UDisc didn't have any interest in adding a changeable SSA to their app. That would make sense.

 

[ru4por]

I wondered if the proprietary issue is why UDisc didn't have any interest in adding a changeable SSA to their app. That would make sense.

I'm going to guess there is no demand for it.

 

[DavidSauls]

Why would you want to manually change the SSA? It seems to me that would make it fairly meaningless -- just your personal feeling on how tough you thought the course was or would be, that day. Am I missing something?

 

[shakatak]

Why would you want to manually change the SSA? It seems to me that would make it fairly meaningless -- just your personal feeling on how tough you thought the course was or would be, that day. Am I missing something?

Glad you asked. I'll use my home course as an example. I know from past PDGA tournaments that in all shorts the course plays to around a 45.2 SSA and from all longs it plays to around a 47.5 SSA. I can change it to somewhere in between based on any setup between those two. Yes, I know it's not exact but you can get pretty close. Currently, my rating in ESP app is 904 and that's based on 92 rounds in the past 6 months. My PDGA rating is 894 and that's based on 9 rounds.

Also, I put some effort into looking up previous sanctioned tourneys at courses I'm going to play. PDGA's feature where you can hover over the round to see what layout was played have really helped me get "close enough for casual play amongst friends" SSAs on most any course I regularly play.

 

[DavidSauls]

Gotcha. That makes more sense than what I imagined, which was, you just coming up with an SSA out of thin air.

 

[shakatak]

The nice thing about the EasyScorecardPro app keeping your ongoing rating is it allows my group of friends to play for a buck a round (big-time money!) using a handicap. If each player has a rating in the app (it takes 3 rounds to get a rating), it automatically gives you a handicapped score based on your rating at the end of the round. I know I'm an outlier stat nerd, but I'm still surprised more people don't want this feature. My regular group has guys ranging from 805 to 905 rated (in the app), and we always play "dollar for best handicap score" when we play.

 

[rgrrbt]

I'm not familiar with ESP app, but the feature you described sounds very useful. I stopped using Udisc on a regular basis, but would use it again if it incorporated the SSA adjusted rating calculations.

 

[shakatak]

I'm not familiar with ESP app, but the feature you described sounds very useful. I stopped using Udisc on a regular basis, but would use it again if it incorporated the SSA adjusted rating calculations.

It really is awesome for groups of friends who are all over the place in skill level

 

[Horsman]

I would 100% use a ratings system if it was in uDIsc. I never understood why uDIsc doesnt have the feature for the user to input what pin position the hole is in. With uDisc being the official app of the PDGA, I would think that they could easily work something out. I also remember hearing a while ago that uDisc was going to be adding ratings but I havent seen that yet.

 

[shakatak]

Here's what the scorecard looks like with all the ratings info. I got this SSA from an A-tier that was played on the course a few weeks before this round.

 

[BillFleming]

We may see updates/additions to uDisc. The Pro version used to cost $5 USD and it was/is a good app. But they are raising the price to $15 USD as it has become more of a business and upkeep, etc. is costing more. With the price increase and (I've heard) more developers, we might also start seeing more options added to the Pro version (and possibly the free version).

It would be interesting to see what they envision the near future to be with uDisc.

 

[jmdaire27]

To contribute; if the goal is just to keep tabs of you and your friends, could make up your own ratings system. Could actually be kinda fun! If handicap is in mind, could you not just go off of total score for the course? Handicap relative par or something? That's how handicap leagues work, I think.

Aside; is the PDGA live scoring that is used during tournaments powered by udisc, though the interface looks different? Different than live score tracking of larger DGPT events where you can follow on udisc. Just curious if the PDGA has their own app, but still has udisc as the official score keeping app. Pdga live scoring pops out a rating at the end, which is why I ask.

 

[shakatak]

To contribute; if the goal is just to keep tabs of you and your friends, could make up your own ratings system. Could actually be kinda fun! If handicap is in mind, could you not just go off of total score for the course? Handicap relative par or something? That's how handicap leagues work, I think.

That's an interesting idea but I like the ease of use factor in the ESP scorecard. After you click "finish round", you instantly see your round rating, current player rating, and who was the handicap winner of that round. In addition, our group of 8 includes players in 2 different states. The only time we play the same courses is when we get together once a year for a disc golf weekend.

 

[jmdaire27]

That's an interesting idea but I like the ease of use factor in the ESP scorecard. After you click "finish round", you instantly see your round rating, current player rating, and who was the handicap winner of that round. In addition, our group of 8 includes players in 2 different states. The only time we play the same courses is when we get together once a year for a disc golf weekend.

No doubt just utilizing the in place rating system would be easiest! I do like the idea. To go out and rip a local course and know how it would have rated would be really cool. For now, I like to "compete" against others who played the course/layout that day (by comparing my scores to the registered ones for th day… whoop).

Another aside; I think it was mentioned before, but to be able to play a course and change up which hole location is used would be nice. I try to do, say, all short: all longs: odds/evens; but sometimes at leagues we play 2-4 holes from longs, but that "layout" isn't on udisc. Shrugs.

 

[BillFleming]

To contribute; if the goal is just to keep tabs of you and your friends, could make up your own ratings system. Could actually be kinda fun! If handicap is in mind, could you not just go off of total score for the course? Handicap relative par or something? That's how handicap leagues work, I think.

Aside; is the PDGA live scoring that is used during tournaments powered by udisc, though the interface looks different? Different than live score tracking of larger DGPT events where you can follow on udisc. Just curious if the PDGA has their own app, but still has udisc as the official score keeping app. Pdga live scoring pops out a rating at the end, which is why I ask.

I believe they are two different things. The PDGA app doesn't have maps, directions, etc. I don't think you can even add a layout or change par settings on a hole. uDisc has maps, directions, etc. and you can add layouts and change par settings on a hole (I know this for a fact as someone changed par on a hole I play frequently because they felt the par was wrong...it took me sending a photo of the tee sign to uDisc to get it changed back).

 

[jeverett]

I've looked into a few different apps but they don't quite have the feature we're looking for. The DGCR app calculates a rating but the SSA isn't user-changeable and is based on the auto-generated SSAs on DGCR, which are always way off. I found a few other apps that generate a round rating (Infinite Discs, PDGA 2) but it's the same story with those.

It is actually possible to get the DGCR SSA formula adjusted, if you know that the SSA estimates it produces are off compared to 'real' SSA data. Basically, the way the system works, it (only) looks at the course foliage factor (lightly wooded, moderately wooded, and heavily wooded) and hole lengths to estimate the SSA, and if the course foliage value isn't a good match for how difficult the course really plays, it can be quite off. *But*, internally the system is set up such that the SSA estimate function can be decoupled from the course foliage value. I used to contact Timg when a course SSA wasn't a good match by default, and internally the SSA function can be adjusted (based on those three foliage options) without actually changing the foliage value of the course on the course page. I'm assuming you can now contact the new admins to accomplish this.

Side-note: I've long been advocating for more than three options for estimating the SSA of a course. It would be an easy mathematical change to make, and would allow for greater accuracy when the SSA estimate is decoupled from the course foliage value. If this feature starts getting used more often, perhaps more fidelity to the SSA estimate tool could be a higher priority.

 

[chevis]

since dgcr ssa is brought up, if it does get worked on, i want the wind factor to be added to the calculation.

 

[jeverett]

since dgcr ssa is brought up, if it does get worked on, i want the wind factor to be added to the calculation.

Hi Chevis,

It could certainly be done.. the trick would be trying to determine, on average, what impact each level of wind (DGCR uses 'None', 'Calm', 'Moderate', and 'Strong'). would have on the SSA. Ideally, we'd need a sampling of 'real' SSA data that could be matched up with the various wind levels that can be selected on the scorecard to use as the basis for the calculations.

The other challenge I think would be that what constitutes each level of wind may be a lot of individual preference and/or regional. e.g. here in the Willamette Valley, OR, I usually rate everything from 0-5mph winds as 'none' or 'calm', and then 5-10mph would be 'moderate', and then anything above 10mph would be 'strong'.. and much above 10mph and I don't even play disc golf. But there are other parts of the country where these same wind condition categories are thought of very differently, I'm sure.