Selah Ranch

[Memphis Newbie]

I have to speak up about a recent selah review. Good review except for the complaint in the cons that the pars from the red tees were to easy and should be lowered. The reviewer complained that they got a 9 under from the red tees so this was evidence that the pars should be lowered. I have several problems with this. First, John Houck is widely known as the best, most experienced, most detail oriented, etc., course designer there is. If he places a red tee, he doesn't do it arbitrarily, he knows the exact distance to the basket and the obstacles guarding the basket. If he makes a red tee, it is an appropriate challenge for a red player who has a rating of 850 as stated on this pdga document. http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/ParGuidelines.pdf
Also, Red tees are the easiest tees according to pdga guidelines. If you shoot too low on the red tees it just means you had a better than 850 rated round and you may need more of a challenge. The beauty of Selah is that if the red tees are too easy for you there are blue tees. If you get 9 under on the blue tees I will not complain if you ask for more of a challenge.

 

[championlog22]

I have to speak up about a recent selah review. Good review except for the complaint in the cons that the pars from the red tees were to easy and should be lowered. The reviewer complained that they got a 9 under from the red tees so this was evidence that the pars should be lowered. I have several problems with this. First, John Houck is widely known as the best, most experienced, most detail oriented, etc., course designer there is. If he places a red tee, he doesn't do it arbitrarily, he knows the exact distance to the basket and the obstacles guarding the basket. If he makes a red tee, it is an appropriate challenge for a red player who has a rating of 850 as stated on this pdga document. http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/ParGuidelines.pdf
Also, Red tees are the easiest tees according to pdga guidelines. If you shoot too low on the red tees it just means you had a better than 850 rated round and you may need more of a challenge. The beauty of Selah is that if the red tees are too easy for you there are blue tees. If you get 9 under on the blue tees I will not complain if you ask for more of a challenge.

I also said it wasn't a big deal and I still gave both courses a 5/5. No need to complain about an opinion. Par makes no difference in how a course is played.

 

[Memphis Newbie]

I also said it wasn't a big deal and I still gave both courses a 5/5. No need to complain about an opinion. Par makes no difference in how a course is played.

True.

 

[grodney]

User cc0049 recently updated Creekside to "Moderately Hilly & Moderately Wooded". Hadn't we agreed here that it is Mostly Flat? Also, I don't know what it was before, but Moderately Wooded also seems a stretch for Creekside.

Shall we change it to Flat and Open?

 

[PFort]

I would say it has a good mix of holes, with some being flat and somewhat open, and some being hilly and wooded. I would think it to be hard to classify it either way.

User cc0049 recently updated Creekside to "Moderately Hilly & Moderately Wooded". Hadn't we agreed here that it is Mostly Flat? Also, I don't know what it was before, but Moderately Wooded also seems a stretch for Creekside.

Shall we change it to Flat and Open?

 

[mashnut]

Creekside is definitely flat and open, no way it falls into the "moderately" category on either of those.

 

[grodney]

Creekside is definitely flat and open, no way it falls into the "moderately" category on either of those.

Yeah, in looking back through the thread, almost everybody agrees on Flat, especially for Creekside. There's some debate on woodedness for Creekside, but I would easily lean toward Open myself.

I shall make the change.

 

[mashnut]

Cool. I think that if you had only played Texas courses you might be able to see it as moderately wooded, but if you've traveled to different parts of the country Creekside is very open by comparison to most courses.

 

[cc0049]

It is hard to classify it either way, but I know that when you put it as flat and open, the DGCR round ratings are WAY off. So using the rating system as a guide, it should be classified as moderately in both categories. My opinion. Don't usually waste much time looking through the forums, so sorry I missed that there had been discussion on this already. Happened to catch this today.

Example: Shot 15 under par 68 on creekside shorts and it rated that as 959. Something is VERY off about that. When you change the course to moderately wooded and hilly, the round rating is much more accurate.

 

[cc0049]

Actually, the change just needs to be from lightly wooded to moderately wooded to make the ratings reasonable. Mostly flat is fine.

 

[mashnut]

There's a technical factor now that Tim can adjust, that way the ratings can be adjusted for courses with lots of OB/water without classifying the course differently from what's really there. I stand by my post above, that for a Texas course it's moderately wooded, but compared to all the courses out there it's definitely lightly wooded.

 

[jongoff09]

Example: Shot 15 under par 68 on creekside shorts and it rated that as 959. Something is VERY off about that. When you change the course to moderately wooded and hilly, the round rating is much more accurate.

So you think a 53 on Creekside from the Red tees ought to be rated much higher than 959?

 

[jenb]

So you think a 53 on Creekside from the Red tees ought to be rated much higher than 959?

At the Feb 9, 2013 Paige and Eric Fundraiser, ratings produced indicated an SSA of 65 on Lakeside longs, and 63 on Creekside longs. Conditions were tough, and it was just one round with few propagators.

I don't know of any rated rounds from the red tees. Personally, I throw about 20 strokes higher from the longs on either course, and I throw in the low to mid 70's on Creekside from the reds. I'm an 825ish rated player who throws in the mid to high 60s on courses having 50 SSAs. Based on that, I imagine the SSA on Creekside from the reds is about 53. So, I'd guesstimate that his 53 should be rated closer to 1000, but I don't think I'd go much higher than that.

 

[cc0049]

Yes, that is my point. It should be closer to 1000 in my opinion. It's definitely much higher rated than 959.

So you think a 53 on Creekside from the Red tees ought to be rated much higher than 959?

 

[jongoff09]

Yes, that is my point. It should be closer to 1000 in my opinion. It's definitely much higher rated than 959.

Not doubting your ability, but I have shot casual rounds out there in the mid 50s from the reds and my rating is nowhere close to 1000 (it is 907 if you don't want to look it up). I have only played a handful of rounds out there.

Without seeing tournament scores from them (which we may never see a high level tournament from the red tees), I would think 53 might be 975 based on what I have shot and seen others shoot. The Red tees aren't going to be really challenging to higher level golfers simply because they are designed for 850ish golfers and the distance they throw.

Who knows, I could be way off base and it be rated over 1000. I have been known to throw near 1000 rated rounds. I would like to see a tournament out there to prove it.

 

[cc0049]

I could see 975 if that is what it came out as. 959 is definitely too low though I think. Like you said, it is hard to say for sure without propogating tournament rounds to validate. I'm a 978 rated player currently...I can usually tell when I scored above my rating and when I scored below. That 53 felt like better than my rating.

 

[geoloseth]

If you go back and look at the Am Doubles Championships the second round of the Advanced groups is the scramble round on creekside. I believe the third round was everyone's best score round on Lake side. Keep in mind it was cold and windy mixed with rain on both days and all rounds were from the blue tees.

With that being said a 53 from the Reds on creekside on a nice day Might hit a 950. I couldn't see it being much more than that.

 

[DiscoBriscoe]

Selah- less fun than some other courses?

i don't know why i want to subject myself to all the hate that'll come my way for this, but I want to express my OPINION. I've played both Selah courses only once in the summer of 2012. Enjoyed it immensely. very well designed courses. The signs and carts were very nice. I felt it was overpriced, [and even so they may not even be meeting expenses, but...whatever].

That being said, I just didn't feel like I had played the best 2 courses.

On the same trip, I played Shawshank and Spring Valley [both in the Houston area] and I thought they were both more fun [esp shawshank]. Since then I've played 2 other courses that I felt were more fun and just had more of a wow factor: Branson Treehouz in southern Missouri and the new South Highland Sports Complex in Mayfield Kentucky.

I just wonder if anyone else that's played Selah has felt it's somewhat over-rated [esp considering the price]. What courses would you rate higher?

 

[c_a_miller]

i don't know why i want to subject myself to all the hate that'll come my way for this, but I want to express my OPINION. I've played both Selah courses only once in the summer of 2012. Enjoyed it immensely. very well designed courses. The signs and carts were very nice. I felt it was overpriced, [and even so they may not even be meeting expenses, but...whatever].

That being said, I just didn't feel like I had played the best 2 courses.

On the same trip, I played Shawshank and Spring Valley [both in the Houston area] and I thought they were both more fun [esp shawshank]. Since then I've played 2 other courses that I felt were more fun and just had more of a wow factor: Branson Treehouz in southern Missouri and the new South Highland Sports Complex in Mayfield Kentucky.

I just wonder if anyone else that's played Selah has felt it's somewhat over-rated [esp considering the price]. What courses would you rate higher?

I can understand if you think Shawshank is a more fun course but what about Spring Valley makes you think it is a better course than Selah Ranch? It is an interesting statement.

 

[sloppydisc]

Some people like tight woods, some like open bombs, some like water carries. A lot of it is pure personal opinion. Nothing wrong with feeling that a course isn't your favorite. No harm, no foul. Just don't review a solid course and say it's 1.5 disc course because you think another is more fun.