Should a world distance record with wind assistance count?

[Hellweg]

it is all considered some type of aid, of course you cant change the wind, but you could change where you have the competion, indoor/outdoor

 

[Aubin]

so if the elements of weather cant be changed, either should the elements of nature. Does that mean elevation shouldnt matter either? So once someone builds a dg course on my everest, im going for the big 26,000 ft or so remember the name

exactly. check out youtube, there's lots of videos of guys blasting drives thousands of feet off elevation.

if you include wind, you're creating a record for that day in that exact condition, not a measure of a person's skill.

and let's not get started on rollers....

 

[DSCJNKY]

If memory serves me correctly Sandstrom had a 25mph wind at his back when he threw that 820' world record shot. This seems excessive for a world record to me.

With that said, Sandstrom is a beast. At the USDGC long drive competition this year he was warming up and threw several drives farther than the furthest drive by the rest of the golfers... and LOTS farter at that (100+').
However, during his alotted 5 competition throws he pulled a rib muscle (or something) on his second throw and quit.

Everyone present during the warm ups agreed that Sandstrom would have crushed those guys. His throws were just different.
DSCJNKY

 

[billnchristy]

Thats what I am saying, the record distance might be 100'-150' less but the holders would be the same because they are THE top distance throwers.

EFF the distance, it is irrelevant, it is the thrower.

 

[KMaC]

A world distance record should be in some kind of controlled environment. A person attempting to break it shouldn't have to rely on outside variables like wind to have a chance to break it. If the 820' record in 2002 were realistic it would have been broken by now. Disc technology has improved considerably in 7 years.

It has. Where have you been?

On one hand, I think it would be interesting to see what the distance record would be in an indoor facility, but that's just not practical.

 

[KMaC]

^^^^^^^^^^^
Whoops, no it hasn't what am I talking about.

But if you think wind makes THAT big of a distance, why don't you just go find the biggest tailwind on the planet and break that record? Because you can't. Anyone who can throw 800' with wind can throw 600-700' without, and that's impressive.

Let them play the wind, who cares? You won't be breaking that record anyway.

 

[prerube]

I know they use the wind factor in sprints, but does it also come into play on the longer races like the 1600 and others?

No it doesn't ya ding dong.

the 1600 is a loop (4 loops), so you are only aided by the wind the whole way if you are in a tornado:doh:

 

[DSCJNKY]

.......But if you think wind makes THAT big of a distance, why don't you just go find the biggest tailwind on the planet and break that record? Because you can't. Anyone who can throw 800' with wind can throw 600-700' without, and that's impressive.......

I think the purpose of this conversation is not for US to break the record...
It's more along the lines of "How can Avery, or Double G, or Wiggins, etc... have a fair shot at breaking the record if the competitions they go to don't have a 25 mph wind at their backs?" They can't.

Therefore.... the debate.
DSCJNKY

 

[Apothecary]

"Christian shattered the distance record April 26, 2002 at "Big D in the Desert". His record throw of 250 meters (820 feet) was made with a DX Valkyrie. Former team member Ken Jarvis was first to break the record with a throw of 247 meters. Ken's record lasted a mere 45 minutes!" ~source: some website

mustve been a great day for bombs!

 

[garublador]

I think the purpose of this conversation is not for US to break the record...
It's more along the lines of "How can Avery, or Double G, or Wiggins, etc... have a fair shot at breaking the record if the competitions they go to don't have a 25 mph wind at their backs?" They can't.

Therefore.... the debate.
DSCJNKY

So to be "fair" they'd have to throw the same mold and weight that was used to set the original record, right? How come on one ever complains about that "unfairness" but people are constantly complaining about this one? Why are they so anxious for new disc technology to influence the record but are so against weather conditions influencing it?

 

[prerube]

^ listen to the man, he's a DG expert. (Garublador, not the baby)

 

[Aubin]

my point is this: the distance records are NOT a measure of the person's ability because of the extreme factors... 25-35 mph tailwind and 3000ft elevation (thinner air). it's whoever gets lucky that day. why should luck factor into a 'world record'?

impressive? sure. would the same people get the record? probably. true measure of how far a human can throw a disc golf disc? no way.

check out Avery's blog on the competition, cool read:

http://www.zonedriven.com/jenkins/?p=44

 

[Timber]

Not an opinion, just the facts

World Flying Disc Federation Records
The following is quoted from WFDF World Record Regulations
Reporting
In order to receive sanction as an official record, the performance must take place under WFDF competitive format at a meet which is sanctioned by WFDF or a national member association. The information about a new record must be sent to WFDF as soon as possible. This must be done on a WFDF Record Report Form, which must be completely filled out and accompanied by evidence that the tournament was properly organized and sanctioned. When possible, video documentation of submissions is encouraged. In some cases noted below, video is required.

Guiness Book of Records
The WFDF serves as a clearing house for all flying disc records for Guinness Superlatives Ltd. Prior to the printing of each edition, existing records for the various categories are forwarded to the Guinness offices for inclusion. They reserve the right, however, to print those records which they feel are best suited for publication.

Individual Events
Number of attempts for distance MTA and TRC should be limited to no more than three sets of five on any one day. If there is doubt about the rules, it is recommended that the strictest interpretation be adopted. For any attempt, expert officiating by impartial witnesses is required.

Distance
The throw must be made over level ground. No noticeable degree of slope is acceptable. There is no restriction on wind level for the outdoor record. Measure to the nearest centimeter.

 

[leppard]

I think the purpose of this conversation is not for US to break the record...
It's more along the lines of "How can Avery, or Double G, or Wiggins, etc... have a fair shot at breaking the record if the competitions they go to don't have a 25 mph wind at their backs?" They can't.

Therefore.... the debate.
DSCJNKY

This is the main point I wanted to get across. Thank you.

 

[jkdisc]

in track and field, if the wind is over a certain limit a performance wont count for a record because it is not a fair to the true meaning of a record.
if a baby tosses a disc into a tornado and it lands 10 miles away should that count?

 

[DSCJNKY]

So to be "fair" they'd have to throw the same mold and weight that was used to set the original record, right? How come on one ever complains about that "unfairness" but people are constantly complaining about this one? Why are they so anxious for new disc technology to influence the record but are so against weather conditions influencing it?

I don't think they'd have to throw the same disc. In long distance ball golf driving competitons they don't all use the same type of ball and driver. And, in other speed records (cars, bikes, skis, swimming...) progression is part of the deal. I think no one complains because it's just understood that engines will get better, materials will become lighter, swimsuits will become faster, etc... progression is part of the deal in all world records.

However, the environment is somewhat different. I don't think they count certain speed records when there is a significant tail wind in effect. That would be the only reason why I would question the 820' mark.

With that said, I think it's cool that the record is 820'... that way when someone who knows nothing about DG asks how far can you throw those things, you could say "well I can only throw them ____ far, but the world record is 820 feet". It gets people interested in the possibilities of disc flight and could legitimize, in their eyes, our sport.
DSCJNKY

 

[DSCJNKY]

Not an opinion, just the facts
Distance
The throw must be made over level ground. No noticeable degree of slope is acceptable. There is no restriction on wind level for the outdoor record. Measure to the nearest centimeter.

Well... there it is.
DSCJNKY

 

[garublador]

I don't think they'd have to throw the same disc. In long distance ball golf driving competitons they don't all use the same type of ball and driver. And, in other speed records (cars, bikes, skis, swimming...) progression is part of the deal. I think no one complains because it's just understood that engines will get better, materials will become lighter, swimsuits will become faster, etc... progression is part of the deal in all world records.

So the issue with weather is that there isn't a progression. If the wind were constantly getting faster, would that mean it would be more legitamite because there is a progression? If the weather isn't getting constantly, objectively better or worse (I doubt we can prove it either way) then how come it's not just considered one of the constants?

You mentioned ball golf records. What are the weather condition requirements for a distance ball golf competition?

 

[DSCJNKY]

If the wind were constantly getting faster, would that mean it would be more legitamite because there is a progression?

Seriously???
DSCJNKY

 

[prerube]

I think Timber ended the debate, yet it is still going.