Sidearm technique with shoulder mobility problems?

[Pbmercil]

Title pretty much says it; I'm hoping to get some feedback on developing a sidearm driving game as someone with a poor range of motion in my shoulder, and am curious if anybody else with shoulder issues has successfully developed a low impact sidearm throwing motion.

I've been playing for a long time, and aside from my first few months in the sport as a noob chucker I've basically been 100% backhand since I started taking the sport seriously, so almost 10 years now. I've been needing to develop a sidearm drive for a long time, but my backhand anny skills have gotten so good that its always been hard for me to force myself to work on a sidearm game. In addition to just not wanting to, I also have a pretty messed up shoulder that severely limits my range of motion, making a big windup sidearm pretty much impossible for me to do comfortably. I'm pretty sure that with my shoulder issues developing a bombing sidearm drive is out of the question, but it would really take my game to the next level if I could accurately sidearm reasonable drives in the '250-350 range.

I finally forced myself to do some sidearm only fieldwork the other day, and it was physically painful. I didn't ever try and blast anything, I was just trying to throw easy shots from 200-250, and even that hurt like crap. A little bit of that was muscle soreness from working neglected muscle groups in a motion they are not used to, but there was definitely more going on than that.

So does anyone have any advice on how to keep a sidearm from overly stressing a weak shoulder joint? Anybody ever worked through similar problems? How about some basic sidearm practice techniques?

 

[sidewinder22]

Quite a loaded question with little info/no video. Can you skip stones?

 

[grotto]

I have a bad shoulder from an old diving injury, doesn't effect my backhand, but forehand was painful. Things I learned trough trial and error were, I have to keep my elbow close to my body and only make a short straight reach back. I tried a blizzard disc thinking the lighter weight might help, but it hurts more than a max weight disk (maybe I need more weight resistance). In short, I'm just throwing an extended flick, not a full forehand. With some practice and taking it easy, I can throw 250' and that's all I need it for. I use forehand mostly for approach and up shots where needed and get out of trouble shots.

Start slow and short distance.

Without knowing what your injury is, I don't know if this may help.

 

[eegor]

I have a bad shoulder from an old diving injury, doesn't effect my backhand, but forehand was painful. Things I learned trough trial and error were, I have to keep my elbow close to my body and only make a short straight reach back. I tried a blizzard disc thinking the lighter weight might help, but it hurts more than a max weight disk (maybe I need more weight resistance). In short, I'm just throwing an extended flick, not a full forehand. With some practice and taking it easy, I can throw 250' and that's all I need it for. I use forehand mostly for approach and up shots where needed and get out of trouble shots.

Start slow and short distance.

Without knowing what your injury is, I don't know if this may help.

:thmbup: Stable and slightly understable plastic will help get more distance throwing this way.

 

[mfcastillo17]

Can you swing a baseball bat with no pain? If so you can throw a sidearm. I have a very good sidearm and I use it for most of my max distance drives. I've studied the mechanics of throwing a sidearm and with my background as a college baseball player, I've found that the mechanics of throwing a sidearm are very similar to the mechanics of hitting a baseball. Most people who throw sidearm and it causes them pain are using the small muscles in their shoulders rather than the larger muscle groups in the legs and hips to generate the power.

Look at some pictures of major league baseball players at the point of contact and really good sidearm players (Wysocki, Big Jerm, Joey Lutz). You will find that the mechanics are very similar.

 

[Pbmercil]

Quite a loaded question with little info/no video. Can you skip stones?

Sorry, I'll try and give you guys some more information. I don't think a video would really be all that helpful as I'm just trying to find a comfortable throw right now, my mechanics are very much in their infancy.

I hope this makes sense. Basically the pain and range of motion problem comes into play when I try to lead with my elbow, trying to tuck the elbow in "ahead" of the disc so to speak. I simply cannot comfortably do that, and that is something that looks to be a pretty prevalent part of the mechanics from the videos I've looked at. He's a screenshot of Avery. I don't have the range of motion in my shoulder to do this.

 

[Pbmercil]

In short, I'm just throwing an extended flick, not a full forehand. With some practice and taking it easy, I can throw 250' and that's all I need it for. I use forehand mostly for approach and up shots where needed and get out of trouble shots.

Start slow and short distance.

I think this is exactly the ticket, for now at least

 

[Monocacy]

I have a jacked up shoulder, too. Used to throw sidearm up to 300', but sidearm aggravated old shoulder injuries. After healing up I re-worked my sidearm using mostly wrist and fingers to propel the disc, keeping my elbow pretty much pinned to my side. With practice, wristy putter sidearms can go an easy 150-200'.

I mostly sidearm putters and mids, but I have slowly started adding a longer reach-back. Don't know whether I will regain past distance, but even using sidearm for putters and mids 250' and in is pretty useful on the course.

mfcastillo17 makes an excellent point about how to avoid straining small shoulder muscles. Sidearm is nice to have, but isn't worth tearing up your shoulder.

Good luck!

 

[formerwrestler]

Wow! Great thread. I'm a newbie and began throwing sidearm much farther than backhand, but shoulder was killing me. Basically stopped throwing sidearm all together until shoulder pain goes away. Looked online and found some videos of shoulder strengthening "band" exercises and they seem to be helping relieve the pain after a few days, but have not tried throwing in over a week to see if I can get away from the pain.

Have a pretty high pain tolerance and thought I could just work through the pain, but not being able to hang my arm at my side and constant waking up at night with pain told me I can no longer do that. Getting old sucks! Will be 52 next week, and need to start thinking like I am no longer young.

Can someone elaborate on the throwing technique using the larger muscles of the shoulder?

Thanks,

 

[Bultx1215]

I'm in pretty much the same boat. After each shoulder injury....and there have been 5 so far...my sidearm was what had to be worked back up. I have very little reach back movement left. So, to counter that, I had to develop a bit of an X-step type of motion. Took some practice, but it works and I don't hurt myself. I got them back out to the 260-280 range and that is all I need.

 

[Clonan]

I had a bad shoulder, had it repaired and am still able to side arm just as well as I did before. The key to sidearm is NOT draw power from your shoulder, but rather the snap of your wrist. I see a lot of people on here talk about throwing a forehand shot like a sidearm pitcher which in most cases is REALLY not good for your shoulder or your elbow (in disc golf). It's all in your wrist snap. You want to keep your elbow close to your body. See the videos below.

Bad form that will hurt your shoulder and elbow.

Proper form that will protect your shoulder and elbow (1:50 mark).
I throw like this and I hit 350' with a stand still approach, no pain.

Also, always stretch your forearm before a round when your going to throw forehand. I have strained my tendon (Medial Epicondyle) many a time because I didn't loosen it up before tossing. It's no fun and takes a week or 2 to go away.
It took me 1 month of open field practicing for 30 minutes x 6 days a week to get the form down. It's weird at first but once you figure out the wrist snap, its cake.

Also, look into visiting a physical therapist in your area. By me (Chicago) we have Athletico Physical Therapy and they offer FREE screenings. Meet with a DPT (Doctor of Physical Therapy) and explain the pain you are experiencing, bring in a disc and show them what you're doing and they can offer you stretches to improve your flexibility and range of motion (unless an injury is preventing it) and exercises that can strengthen your shoulder and back muscles to help support your shoulder joint more. Hope this helps man!

 

[Mocheez]

You want to keep your elbow close to your body.

I am the opposite. Keeping the elbow close to my body causes pain in my shoulder that lasts several days. I started throwing with my elbow further away and have been pain free ever since.

I think the most important thing is getting your body into the throw and following through. It's just like backhand in that pain in your shoulder probably means that you are strong arming and not using your legs/core.

 

[Clonan]

I had a bad shoulder, had it repaired and am still able to side arm just as well as I did before. The key to sidearm is NOT draw power from your shoulder, but rather the snap of your wrist. I see a lot of people on here talk about throwing a forehand shot like a sidearm pitcher which in most cases is REALLY not good for your shoulder or your elbow (in disc golf). It's all in your wrist snap. You want to keep your elbow close to your body. See the videos below.

Bad form that will hurt your shoulder and elbow.

Proper form that will protect your shoulder and elbow (1:50 mark).
I throw like this and I hit 350' with a stand still approach, no pain.

Also, always stretch your forearm before a round when your going to throw forehand. I have strained my tendon (Medial Epicondyle) many a time because I didn't loosen it up before tossing. It's no fun and takes a week or 2 to go away.
It took me 1 month of open field practicing for 30 minutes x 6 days a week to get the form down. It's weird at first but once you figure out the wrist snap, its cake.

Also, look into visiting a physical therapist in your area. By me (Chicago) we have Athletico Physical Therapy and they offer FREE screenings. Meet with a DPT (Doctor of Physical Therapy) and explain the pain you are experiencing, bring in a disc and show them what you're doing and they can offer you stretches to improve your flexibility and range of motion (unless an injury is preventing it) and exercises that can strengthen your shoulder and back muscles to help support your shoulder joint more. Hope this helps man!

Great note by a user before me, you draw power from your legs and hips which while transfer into your wrist snap.

After seeing your post with the Avery Jenkins still, that motion is kind of required for a forehand. His elbow is too far out though. If you try the form with your elbow closer (inches away from your hip), cock back, do you experience pain? you only need to go like 80 degrees. I cant go 90 degrees because of my shoulder repair, but I don't need to.

 

[Clonan]

I am the opposite. Keeping the elbow close to my body causes pain in my shoulder that lasts several days. I started throwing with my elbow further away and have been pain free ever since.

I think the most important thing is getting your body into the throw and following through. It's just like backhand in that pain in your shoulder probably means that you are strong arming and not using your legs/core.

I agree with the legs & hips part, but good luck with the elbow out man... It's bad body mechanics.

 

[Mocheez]

Sorry, I'll try and give you guys some more information. I don't think a video would really be all that helpful as I'm just trying to find a comfortable throw right now, my mechanics are very much in their infancy.

I hope this makes sense. Basically the pain and range of motion problem comes into play when I try to lead with my elbow, trying to tuck the elbow in "ahead" of the disc so to speak. I simply cannot comfortably do that, and that is something that looks to be a pretty prevalent part of the mechanics from the videos I've looked at. He's a screenshot of Avery. I don't have the range of motion in my shoulder to do this.

Focus on leading with your shoulder instead of your elbow. You are probably getting your elbow ahead of your shoulder and over-torquing your shoulder tendons. Avery is leading with his elbow but it never gets ahead of his shoulder.

 

[Mocheez]

I agree with the legs & hips part, but good luck with the elbow out man... It's bad body mechanics.

I don't know, it is further out than what I was doing before and I am pain free. I think it was a matter of not letting my elbow get ahead of my shoulder and the adjustment I made forced me to fix that motion. Maybe I will try bringing my elbow in with that in mind and see if the pain comes back.

 

[sidewinder22]

but good luck with the elbow out man... It's bad body mechanics.

Elbow in is myth.

 

[mfcastillo17]

Again, i'll reference my comparison of hitting to throwing a sidearm.

Easiest way to remember it for me is:
Everything on the backside (throwing hand side which for me is right side) must fire as one piece. McBeth does a good job of it in the video above.
Everything has to fire as one piece, back foot, back knee, right hip, elbow, throwing hand. Simplifies the mechanics and brings in the larger muscle groups.

Elbow in is not a myth. McBeth's elbow is relatively close to his body in that throw.

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm repeating what Scott stokley said is the biggest myth in disc golf. Mcbeths elbow couldn't possibly be any further away at reachback. If you keep the elbow in its like try to throw with t-Rex arms.

 

[Shamis]

I would think forearm would be easier on the shoulder. It ****s up my elbow though.