Some general inquiries...

[BTBAM]

So I am new to this forum, but I've found lots of the information really helpful. I am on a music forum, I've played guitar for about 8 years, so I know what it's like on the net with trolling and giving people a hard time when new to asking questions, or not knowing how to navigate forums and what not, but basically I just had a few questions.
(i'm hoping this in general chat is appropriate since it isn't really a technique thread, just some questions about how this forum sees the game)

It seems I find a lot of posts mentioning wanting to get more people into this sport, but at the same time see a lot of people hashing on newer people to the sport as well.

I am a left handed thrower, and just started about 4 months ago, but have been very eager to tweak my shot properly. My main disc I throw is a buzzz, and I know how to throw my angles with it, and get it around 250-300 easily.

My one thing still working on getting better is my putting, which all comes with continuous practice.

I do however, thow a few powerful drivers I'm confortable with, but see people again hashing on newer players throwing these powerful discs.

I am still working on my backhand, as most drivers I throw with it also Max out around 300.

When playing rounds with longer holes, I do throw sidearm a lot on my drives, depending on if the hole favors left or right hand. I have a teebird I forearm dead straight til the end, 350 isn't a problem with it.

I have a surge ss I really like, it gets 325-375 really long and straight with a left fade at the end or a long turning, slow s.

I also had a friend recently give me a katana that is a wider, faster, s that I can forearm around 400.

I see people hash on players throwing primarily forehand, and again I'm just curious as to why.

I just figured the point would be to get to the end of the round in the fewest shots, and using my forearm and some of these discs have helped me do that.

Anyone want to help me out with some of the things I've mentioned? Just trying to get more that my own perspective on things.

There are still a lot of things i'm reading and finding out that are really helpful, like the thread about players throwing hyzers because it is more predictable where it stops than a straight shot without knowing about its skip. That is something I'm going to continue to work on.

I have some players who are better than me locally I've been going out playing with, and they keep encouraging me to get out and start playing tournaments and such, saying as they've seen me play that they think I'd do well.

Sorry, a lot of this may not tie together well, just some things going on in my head while I read the forum I was just wondering...

 

[BTBAM]

Basically summing up some of the actual questions:

Why is there encouragement to get new players into the game as well as hashing on newer players for doing so?

Is there anything really wrong with having a good sidearm regularly thrown if your game is 80-85% backhand?


How do you know if the discs are 'too powerful to throw you n00b'?

 

[Karl]

First, remember that MB thread advice is not as good as 'real life' advice...so spend more time at the course (learning) and less time here (kind of learning).

People will "hate"...just because "others" are different.

They want the sport to grow...but ONLY if it grows via the addition of people similar to themselves. This isn't proper, but it IS the way of people :thmbdown: .

Throw whatever works for you - regardless of what others say.
Throw a myriad of ways; you can never have enough weapons at your disposal.
You can NEVER practice putting enough.

Enjoy the sport!

Karl

 

[DavidSauls]

The new player issue involves not all new players---we love to see the sport grow---but a certain faction of new players with very poor behaviour, who many of us would be happy to grow without. Playing in groups of 11 without letting others play through, being loud and obnoxious, grafitti, etc.

Perhaps the most positive thing in your post is that you're regularly playing with people better than you. A great way to improve, and perhaps learn disc golf etiquette and avoid being one of those new players mentioned above.

Also, congratulations on touching on enough topics that thread drift will not be a problem here.

 

[jdggna]

The new player issue involves not all new players---we love to see the sport grow---but a certain faction of new players with very poor behaviour, who many of us would be happy to grow without. Playing in groups of 11 without letting others play through, being loud and obnoxious, grafitti, etc.

Perhaps the most positive thing in your post is that you're regularly playing with people better than you. A great way to improve, and perhaps learn disc golf etiquette and avoid being one of those new players mentioned above.

Also, congratulations on touching on enough topics that thread drift will not be a problem here.

^^^ What he said. Especially the first part. A lot of people have been mentioning "noob hate" here recently, believing that it stems from not liking new players. First off, I've yet to read anything that seems to be the source of these beliefs, but I'm sure it exists somewhere on this board. Second, what people mean if they do make a comment about "noobs" or whatever is the people with terrible etiquette and behavior.

 

[BTBAM]

One example I think I've seen is talk about newer people going and grabbing these discs more powerful than they can throw, and talking also about them getting the newest disc because it adds an extra 50 feet or so, and what not. Never saying that is taken directed at me at all, but since I am newer and do have some of those higher power discs, albeit their help in my game and comfort of throwing these distances even using 70 precent power or something, don't want to start a trend. I'm more than comfortable playing a course with just my buzzz and putter, or adding the teebird too.

 

[jdggna]

My main disc I throw is a buzzz, and I know how to throw my angles with it, and get it around 250-300 easily.

I do however, thow a few powerful drivers I'm confortable with, but see people again hashing on newer players throwing these powerful discs.

I am still working on my backhand, as most drivers I throw with it also Max out around 300.

You just answered your own question. Most of your drivers are maxing out at about the same distance as your Buzzz. Most of us made the mistake of starting with plastic that is too fast. We thought a new fast disc would go far. We wasted a ton of time without really understanding how to get better. We are just trying to help others avoid that. Today's "fairway drivers" and "midranges" are better suited for most people's throwing ability than the Wraith, Destroyer, Boss, etc...especially when they just started playing.

I see people hash on players throwing primarily forehand, and again I'm just curious as to why.

There are two reasons for this (that I see anyways).

First, backhand shots have the potential for more distance. That is just the way it is. With good form they will go farther than a forehand. It is influenced by the faster driver dilemma as well because a forehand shot is more natural and easier to learn, especially with a fast disc. When somebody buys the fastest disc they can and fail throwing it backhand, they switch to forehand with immediate improvement. In the long run learning both is ideal, but a lot of people who do not take it seriously (ie: compete in tourneys, play leagues, etc) will never take the time to properly learn a backhand because they cannot figure it out or do not care.

The second reason is related to the first, faster drivers, and the "noob hating" attitude. I'll do it in a cause/effect relationship demonstration, starting with a loud, littering, moron that we refer to when we say we don't like the noobs.

Cause: Moron thinks he's hot **** and will dominate this easy thing called disc golf.
Effect: He buys a Boss because the Innova chart says its for advanced players and big arms.

Cause: He cannot throw his ultra fast driver extremely far backhand.
Effect: He only throws FH because it works better.

Cause: He acts like a douche (that's how we defined him).
and
Cause: He only throws forehand.
Effect: We generalize FH throwers in with the "noob hating" attitude.

It isn't anything against throwing forehand, its just the type of people that typically do it. This is similar to harping on people that only carry a single disc...the same type of correlation applies.

I have some players who are better than me locally I've been going out playing with, and they keep encouraging me to get out and start playing tournaments and such, saying as they've seen me play that they think I'd do well.

Do it. They're fun and a great way to improve your game. Playing with better people is always a good way to learn. Keep with the game and don't let what people say on here fool you, we love to see people joining the sport. As long as you understand that you should litter, yell, throw on people intentionally, etc than nobody is going to be harsh to you.

 

[jdggna]

You ninja'd my novella.

One example I think I've seen is talk about newer people going and grabbing these discs more powerful than they can throw, and talking also about them getting the newest disc because it adds an extra 50 feet or so, and what not. Never saying that is taken directed at me at all, but since I am newer and do have some of those higher power discs, albeit their help in my game and comfort of throwing these distances even using 70 precent power or something, don't want to start a trend. I'm more than comfortable playing a course with just my buzzz and putter, or adding the teebird too.

Those are good discs you're using. Stick with them and you'll be doing well. My answer for why people advise against using the faster discs is at the top of my previous post.

 

[DavidSauls]

Well, there are some somewhat amusing things new players often do. I know I did when I started.

One is to throw the fastest disc when they'll be clearly underpowered and will get poor results. I've played for 15 years and learned I don't have the power for certain discs.

Another is to buy every new wonderdisc that hits the market, thinking it will make them a star. Instead of the boring advice to stick with what you can control until you master it.

Yet another is the new player who gets introduced to disc golf, and instantly so hooked that he plays 3 rounds a day for 3 weeks. I remember those days, too.

And.....to feel the course they started on, perhaps the only course they know, is the greatest course ever and rate it a 5.0. It would actually be a tragedy if your first course was a 5.0---it would take a lot of joy out of traveling.

And.....to pick up some really bad rules myths from other new players.

I was new and remember doing all this.

 

[iloqutiss1]

Welcome noob!:thmbup:
Sounds like your off to a good start, here's mt 2 cents..
Embrace your forehand shot. It's nothing to be ashamed of and will help bring balance to your game. Especially if you really can get it out as far as you say. Certainly don't give up on backhand either. If you stick with it and throw with good mechanics your BH will outdistance your FH in no time. Having the ability to throw both competently will give you an edge many players don't have. Check out these vids..

 

[iloqutiss1]

 

[stsren]

I think the target of the "noob hate" is on people that are relatively new to the sport, relatively unskilled, relatively uneducated with regard to the sport, and are rude on the course and/or have poor course etiquette.

While this is the target, some people on message boards tend to project this anger and lump every new player into this group. Also, some people on message boards are total idiots who can't seem to make enough trouble in their real life that they feel the need to come online and try to assert their forum "dominance."

Welcome to real life.

As for what you're doing...sounds like you're okay. Throw what you like, do what you want. If you want advice, expect to hear all about discing down and never using overstable and learn to throw backhand in excess.

Welcome to DGCR

 

[medicinalfunk]

I think the target of the "noob hate" is on people that are relatively new to the sport, relatively unskilled, relatively uneducated with regard to the sport, and are rude on the course and/or have poor course etiquette.

While this is the target, some people on message boards tend to project this anger and lump every new player into this group. Also, some people on message boards are total idiots who can't seem to make enough trouble in their real life that they feel the need to come online and try to assert their forum "dominance."

Welcome to real life.

As for what you're doing...sounds like you're okay. Throw what you like, do what you want. If you want advice, expect to hear all about discing down and never using overstable and learn to throw backhand in excess.

Welcome to DGCR

:wall:

 

[otterr]

Thanks for posting the videos. I really need to do more research on throwing. I have no distance and really am looking forward to trying what I watched in this thread. Ill have to watch again before I play next week. I unfortunately only get to play once a week. Im not one of those guys who complains because I can only throw 320 on a regular basis. I will probably fill my shorts the first time I throw 300. I have no natural ability but I know I can learn. I have improved my game since I started but have done so mostly on my own, there is tons of room for improvement. I do not make a very good teacher to myself. I have to work on my backhand shot partially because if I throw forehand a lot my elbow starts to hurt.

 

[Beable]

I reject the premise of this thread. This site is very friendly to newbies.

Read more, complain less. Ask questions if you have questions. People will help you. There are a couple jerks, like on any internet site, but the ignore function will quickly solve that.

 

[slowRoll]

I misunderstood alot of the ideas on this site when I first joined the forum. It's not that they are saying you have to use slow discs, or that you have to throw backhanded...
It's just that many of the players on here have been where you are at right right now and they are trying to direct you down the path of least resistance in developing all the skills you will need to become a good player. They are trying to pass on wisdom to you noob. That's about as helpful as any of us can be. Glad to hear you are loving the game and are hungry for more. The only other tip I can offer you is, as you start playing competatively, take it all in and don't quit. Some guys will drop out of a tournament(DNF(did not finish)) when they are playing like crap. I highly recomend you never do this. Hang in there and take it all in. The pain of that bad day will be a great motivator to you in the long run. I once took a double circle 8 and lost 2 discs on a hole. I felt incredibly angry and embarresed while it was happening. The guys I was with were strangers and were cool about it, but they didn't offer a helpful word. It was then that I learned that it was all about me and it doesn't matter how many strokes you are up or down, who you are playing with or against.... none of that matters...it's all about you and your game as you play the course. I use the pain of that day as motivation to this day, so I would recomend to you that no matter what, hang in there.

 

[jdggna]

I reject the premise of this thread. This site is very friendly to newbies.

Read more, complain less. Ask questions if you have questions. People will help you. There are a couple jerks, like on any internet site, but the ignore function will quickly solve that.

lol...oh, the irony

 

[Ryan P.]

I'll attempt to answer your question about forehand throws and faster discs (because of their relation), although it has been somewhat answered already.

I assume that you have played long enough to know certain terms (anhyzer, hyzer, OAT). if not, you seem adept enough to find the answers.

The general reason noobs like the forehand throw, which has been stated, is that forehand is more natural and therefore has more immediate distance compared to backhand.

And the general reasoning concerning the faster discs is that while faster discs do go further, they hide flaws in form.

Some new players think they need a fast disc for drives. So they get one and go try to throw the disc on the course, but realize they cannot get it to fly straight. So what they do is throw it forehand (usually), and either they release it anhyzer or throw it with OAT to get it to do an "S" curve and end up straight.

There is nothing wrong with throwing a disc with anhyzer release (contra Apothecary's beliefs), but when that's the only way you can throw that disc, something isn't right. Most people can disc down (throw slower discs) and this will allow them to throw a straight shot the same distance and they can probably shape more lines with that disc.

Solution: Begin by throwing slower discs. This is not the most fun thing to do, but when i get my friends to play a round, I only give them a mid-range. This makes them worse at first, but when they learn to throw it correctly (not overpowering the disc, throwing it at the right angle, throwing with little/no OAT) and I give them a driver, they can get a slow driver further than they would have been able to throw a fast driver without that build-up.

If that's a little confusing, then please ask questions. Glad you enjoy this great game.

 

[Everett Evans]

My theory (may or may not be true): Back in the day (70's, 80's, even some of the 90's) the only people who played disc golf were those who were so into disc sports that they went out of their way to find it. No internet. Heck, I found out about "heavy plastic" (does anyone even use that term anymore?) by reading a book on Frisbee in my local library which had a number in the back, calling Dan Roddick at Wham-o, he gave me NEFA's contact info, and so forth.
So basically a higher percentage of players back in the day were super-passionate about the sport and wouldn't think of trashing a course or acting like jerks. We wanted nothing more than to share the love of the game.
Now, with easy access to the internet, MBs, discs available at retail stores, etc., you are going to have more casual players who don't care enough about "Frisbee" to treat each other and the courses with respect.
We have plenty of hate for them. Plenty.
My 2 cents.

 

[DSCJNKY]

I find that most "noobs" begin throwing forehand because A) they can see the target throughout the throwing motion... and B) they can get more distance with less effort because it's easier to put more "snap" on the disc using a forehand (initially).
DSCJNKY