Spinning out vs not spinning out

[Sheep]

Some random thinking lately.

First, let me state that this is more of a bring up overall thoughts and talk it all through sort of thing.

So, generally we make a huge deal about spinning out. Which is where when you brace you don't really resist the rotation and swing through early with the lower body.

The thing is though, you can to some extent throw this way. And we make a really big deal about "not spinning out" but...

What if we are looking at it way to harshly and when we are trying to be more touchy and more controlled, spinning out isn't a bad thing?


I'm thinking generally in the sense that maybe in circumstances its good/okay vs bad/never.

Thoughts?
We might just be overcomplicating some things like up shots a bit to much by trying to impose to many rules on touch play vs power play.

 

[M1glareN]

Isn't McBeth kinda spinny on his standstill approaches? At least that's what pops up in my head reading this.

 

[Brychanus]

I think Paul McBeth changes his posture and footwork a bit so the ground pressure changes depending on the upshot, but I wouldn't call it "spinning out."

Spinning out is a kind of informal term. I usually think of it as referring to one of several ways that people miss leverage from the front leg and end up pirouetting around it. In general, spinning out is distinct from landing on the front leg and resisting collapse to post up & clear the front hip by leveraging directly back against the ground.

Paul is still doing the latter here:
https://youtu.be/o_uBSYd5goc?t=30

I only have a small observation to add here. I play with someone who has recently figured out how to throw ~375' on anny flex lines while spinning out. He has started to prefer wide open courses. He usually can't hit gaps in the woods within 200' because he cannot control or predict the disc trajectory coming out of his hand. After briefly trying to learn to throw mids and giving up, he now defaults to trying to flex overstable drivers on most short holes. For some reason he keeps trying to convince everyone around him to do the same thing. I don't like to confront any level of disc golf enthusiasm while playing so (why am I out there if not for fun & to promote fun?), but I'm personally not taking that particular bait.

 

[HB2017]

I think "spinning out" is the lead shoulder opening too much before the player has shifted enough pressure to the lead foot. The same problem exists in ball golf and is common to most amateur players: not forward enough, early enough, before too much torso rotation occurs. The swing path becomes out-to-in ("cutting across it"), causing a pull/slice in ball golf or a grip-lock in disc golf. Amateur players in each sport would do well to never think about rotating as it happens by itself and needs to follow an early "fall" on to the lead leg.

With shorter upshots you still want to avoid thinking about rotation. Because you need less velocity for these shots, a less forceful weight shift and less torso rotation are required, and you can set up more open/less closed to the target line. Since the torso is "pre-opened" on these shots I find the need for an aggressive extension at the elbow to get the disc moving out, I get bad grip-locks otherwise.

 

[Sheep]

I think Paul McBeth changes his posture and footwork a bit so the ground pressure changes depending on the upshot, but I wouldn't call it "spinning out."

Spinning out is a kind of informal term. I usually think of it as referring to one of several ways that people miss leverage from the front leg and end up pirouetting around it. In general, spinning out is distinct from landing on the front leg and resisting collapse to post up & clear the front hip by leveraging directly back against the ground.

Paul is still doing the latter here:
https://youtu.be/o_uBSYd5goc?t=30

I only have a small observation to add here. I play with someone who has recently figured out how to throw ~375' on anny flex lines while spinning out. He has started to prefer wide open courses. He usually can't hit gaps in the woods within 200' because he cannot control or predict the disc trajectory coming out of his hand. After briefly trying to learn to throw mids and giving up, he now defaults to trying to flex overstable drivers on most short holes. For some reason he keeps trying to convince everyone around him to do the same thing. I don't like to confront any level of disc golf enthusiasm while playing so (why am I out there if not for fun & to promote fun?), but I'm personally not taking that particular bait.

I should have said "not the ballerina throw"

Mainly making sure that its known that you've braced and not done the "spin and throw." But you weak braced and spun through earlier.

As for the second part of that.

Those are the people I think are hilarious throwers.
Does the method work? Yes. Is it good? No. Do a lot of people do it? yes.
Do a lot of people encourage others to throw like this. Oh yes they do.

And you, as a coach, will get over ridden by people who suggest these sorts of "bad form" methods that are essentially cheater methods that make up for bad form.
Grab an overstable disc and flick or backhand on annie and you get distance.

And my "coaching" is worthless to everyone around because that person is generally beating me on the course. Why? Cause I am really not that great at playing sometimes because I'm constantly working on form or shot shapes, trying discs, etc.
So since that person throwing a force flex is out driving me with his 13 speed disc and I'm only throwing a midrange. They would rather listen to the person giving bad advice.. ugh>

It's an off topic, but it grinds my gears something fierce.

 

[Sheep]

I think "spinning out" is the lead shoulder opening too much before the player has shifted enough pressure to the lead foot. The same problem exists in ball golf and is common to most amateur players: not forward enough, early enough, before too much torso rotation occurs. The swing path becomes out-to-in ("cutting across it"), causing a pull/slice in ball golf or a grip-lock in disc golf. Amateur players in each sport would do well to never think about rotating as it happens by itself and needs to follow an early "fall" on to the lead leg.

With shorter upshots you still want to avoid thinking about rotation. Because you need less velocity for these shots, a less forceful weight shift and less torso rotation are required, and you can set up more open/less closed to the target line. Since the torso is "pre-opened" on these shots I find the need for an aggressive extension at the elbow to get the disc moving out, I get bad grip-locks otherwise.

In disc golf that is generally just rounding if you're opening your shoulders to the target early.
It's also muscling usually as well.

Your second paragraph is Shot type dependant.
It depends on how you throw your upshots, if you throw them like the recent overthrow video explains you should. Which I don't disagree with all of it, but some of it is.... .. well nobody throwing nose up upshots with a paradox. Anyways.

Thats's not the only way to skin that cat for upshots. There are a few different methods.

 

[Sheep]

Isn't McBeth kinda spinny on his standstill approaches? At least that's what pops up in my head reading this.

I was looking at mcbeast a while back for a video i was doing, and his rear leg comes around much earlier than other players.
However, he braces in a different fashion than other players too, So its a bit harder to judge whats right in that case, cause he's a bent leg bracer vs stiff leg bracer.

But it could be something similar to where I'm thinking here that maybe we put to much into the idea overall. We know if we let the leg lag, its good for power. But I'm speaking more broadly for other shots. And, if we accept that paul comes around a bit earlier than others.
But we also accept that pauls accuracy is.. well absolutely insane.
Maybe he has figured out something we have not yet figured out as well.