[Question] Stabality vs. Durability

[PonyPower42]

Couple questions regarding Stability as a disc seasons:

How does the "beating in" of a disc effect the flight numbers? Does the disc develop more turn, less fade?

A "General" Lifespan of Plastic, DX STAR CHAMPION (or Competing Company's "Equal" Counterpart) From new, beat in....to useless...(If that happens)? Maybe measured in throws, I'm sure that's hard to do given the amount of variables, but any rough estimate helps.


Thanks

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

To your first question: it depends on the mold. Some lose hss first and develop turn, some lose lss first and straighten out more.

As to your second question, there is no real answer. It depends on the run, how hard you throw, what type of courses you play, temperature, too many variables to say. In my experience most base beats in very quickly, pro type a little slower, star type is slower yet, champ is slowest.

I am of the mind a disc never gets useless, just less used. I have a thrashed to hell old glow small bead Aviar. The bead is long gone, it has so many dings and knicks it's almost smooth again. I don't throw it often, but if there is a 200' or so sweeping right dog leg, that sucker does it perfect. Most discs will be useful to you for years, some decades, even if it's just for field throws or that one shot you know a particular disc does that no other will.

 

[Lynn LeFey]

I would really appreciate some guidance on LSS gain/loss.

I have a Champion Mako3 that finished dead straight when i got it last year, but now seems to fade at the end.

Is there a general rule either by broad category (DD, Fairway, Mid) or plastic type that would describe fade gain/loss or is this something dependent on the specific mold, or maybe a general rule like 'Overstables mellow while neutrals gain fade'?

I was going to ask about wear in regards to disc replacement. So... let us assume you have a 'go to' driver. It throws line X, lets assume mildly overstable. How long before it falls into the 'Neutral' slot and needs to be replaced? Assume a not very rocky course, so only occasional superhard hits, moderate tree hits, and Star and Champion plastics (or their equivalents from other brands).

Any general guidance is appreciated.

Ponypower42... I was just about to ask a very similar question, but did a search, and see you beat me to it. Thanks.

 

[tbird888]

I would really appreciate some guidance on LSS gain/loss.

I have a Champion Mako3 that finished dead straight when i got it last year, but now seems to fade at the end.

This sounds like your form is improving, and instead of your new player torque isn't making a disc take longer to long onto its line, you're now having your disc use the spin you're imparting on it. As you start adding more snap to your disc, the faster it'll spin, and the more you'll see it fly further longer without fade being as extreme.

Discs lose stability as they season. They don't gain it.

 

[tbird888]

Seasoning of plastics is more governed by the wing than the plastic type. While DX will always season faster than Champ plastic, a putter and midrange will take much longer to season in any plastic than a distance driver. I see a lot of comments about DX plastic becoming flippy with one tree hit. The DX Roc in my bag is quite old and still has a ton of HSS. The KC Roc I worked on from new took months to lose some fade and start straightening out a little. A DX Boss though...it won't have much stability left after a couple of months of use and a similar amount of tree hits.

In my experience, if you're throwing speed 7 and slower, DX is a great option. Moving into molds faster than that, you will start to see durability issues somewhat quickly.

 

[ODRB]

The Ontario DX Roc in my bag is 21 years old. Still flies nicely (powered down straight shots or long turnovers).

 

[ThrowBot]

Great points made above by 30dirty and Tbird.

For premium plastics, I'd say that the lifespan approaches infinite unless there's some sort of fracture/puncture in the disc. As the disc wears in, there's a limit of diminishing change to the flight properties. If you can find use for a disc in that "sweet spot" it might never need to be replaced. (However, if you lose it, those discs can be hard to replace!)

The time it takes for a new disc to exhibit noticeably different flight properties varies a lot by environment. Throwing into a grassy field, I think it would take a lot of throws (maybe hundreds) to see much change. Throwing into trees, rocks, concrete, etc. will get you there much faster. I play on a course that has a lot of exposed sandstone and I can notice a difference in the flight of Star & Champion discs after a few dozen throws. For discs that I want really beat in, though, it can still take months to achieve the "ideal" state of wear.

 

[Timeetyo]

One thing to add is that there generally seems to be stages of wear that discs go through. How long each stage lasts varies greatly based on the factors given above (plastic, mold, what you are hitting and how hard, etc). You generally see the most change in the first stage particularly if the disc has flashing and you beat the "new" out of it. Then it seems the wear almost stops for a relatively long time in the sweet spot. Eventually, though, you'll see increased wear again (usually where folks get a fresh replacement). Now how long does that take? Could be a handful of throws if it's a DX boss on pavement.....or months/years if its a champ midrange thrown in grass.

 

[World Eater]

OK I think I figured it out.. Lynn is throwing LHBH, so she's probably putting stability back on the disc over time with her reverse spin. Yep, the more I think about it, that's almost certainly what's happening.

In my experience different molds and plastics season differently, and the only thing you can do is take notes and compare notes on any particular mold.

I didnt throw my Champ Mako3s long enough to season them so I dont have any info on seasoning that particular mold, but Tbird is probably right about the fade gain. That Champ plastic should stay pretty fresh for a year unless you're playing a lot of one disc rounds on wooded courses and you have a propensity for missing early gaps...

If you guys have questions about how a particular mold/plastic combo is likely to season though, definitely ask. There are lots of people here with experience cycling all kinds of weird things.

Generalizing how discs season is notrly possible though, other than maybe Tbirds very general generalizations.

 

[SD86]

Agree with most of the above.

While I do think it's possible for a disc to become flippy to the point of uselessness, not many discs will end up doing that.

Some premium plastics will season in faster than others. My Gold Line Rivers (we're talking about four of them now) have become turnover machines after a couple months of near-every-day use. My first Gold Line Fury is the same way but even more super-understable.

By way of contrast, my Star TLs take several months of usage before starting to lose their fade and turn over more. And my Champion TL has yet to season in at all.

But sometimes, the Star plastic resists change more than the Champ plastic. My first Star Mako3 still holds a straight flight with some fade... but my two Champ Mako3s seasoned in more quickly and are now just straight, and slightly understable when thrown with some oomph... those Champ Mako3s are the only Champion discs that have had any change of flight pattern for me....

And I've told this story before, but I've been bagging the same Champion Pink Panther for almost two years now. It is in my bag almost every round I've played, and I throw it at least once and usually twice or three times per round in tough duty situations (spike hyzers, thumbers, rollers)... and it has not lost its LSS (its fade) at all from the first day I threw it. Panthers can be stable to understable, but this Pink Panther has stayed stable-to-overstable like it's trying to win a bet or something.

So it depends on usage, plastic, what type of disc... and there will be exceptions out there to every accepted norm...

 

[pjhayes7]

A DX Boss though...it won't have much stability left after a couple of months of use and a similar amount of tree hits..

A buddy found a Dx Ape with no contact. I asked him I could throw it just to see what it would do. Forehand, it flipped really easy but into a wind, so I figured it was just the wind and me rolling my wrist. Tried throwing it backhand later and it turned into a roller. More flippy than my well used Star Tern. Long story short, it has very little visible damage and it flippy AF. Dx over speed 9 is not for me.

 

[FlipFlat]

I have a 9 year old pro D reaper. If you looked at it you would laugh thinking it would turnover instantly if thrown with any power. It flys straight as a arrow with almost no fade. I do bag it, but only throw it if there's no chance of losing it. I wish I had a backup.