[Innova] Surprising Blizzard Champion Variation

[mike3216]

I have become a fan of Blizzard Champion plastic. I like the feel of the plastic, and the light weight of the discs seems to help my distance at this point. My favorite driver is a BC Katana, so when another one showed up in the used bin at PIAS yesterday, I grabbed it quickly. When I got it home, I realized the new disc was NOTHING like the other disc. In my first BC Katana (right) the bubbles are super fine, and extend all the way through the plastic. In the new one, the bubbles are bigger, elongated, and don't get close to the rim. Older Katana is 140 grams, the newer one is 162 grams. The new one is essentially a Champion with a BC stamp, and I don't have the ability to throw this disc
I work in manufacturing of liquids and emulsions, so I'm pretty aware of the difficulties inherent in maintaining a controlled level of aeration in a semi-liquid plastic. That being said, I am amazed that Innova let this through, and did not mark it as an F2.

 

[m_Krakov]

Variation of the same disc from run-to-run and over time is pretty much Innova's bread and butter. I throw innova, so I'm not trying to bash em, it's just true.

Unfortunately, there are likely forces at play beyond the bubbles that are causing the disc to fly different than the old one. Plastic type, weight (to a degree), PLH (parting line height, look it up), and Disc wear will all contribute.

I'm sure folks will have additional suggestions, but in a nutshell, what you are experiencing is fairly commonplace.

 

[7ontheline]

Those super bubbly ones like your old blue with the bubble so dense they are on the surface are IMO, flippy. They'll fold in half with a decent tree hit. Don't forget that even though its a Blizzard Katana it's still a speed 13 wide ass rim disc that if you bought a new champ are star of you'd probably need 350' power or direct headwind to get it to turn. I've also think the weight and possibly PLH has a lot to do with your flight differences.

I've got a 159 domey Bliz Katana that with a slight L to R or tailwind is easily the longest disc in my bag and a bubbles on the surface like your old one that no matter how much hyzer it'll just turn and burn.

 

[SD86]

Don't give up on that 162g Katana with fewer bubbles... one day it is going to be your most awesome disc, and you'll wonder why you ever doubted it.

To get there, work on form, no matter how good you are already. And then revisit that Katana...

 

[mike3216]

Don't give up on that 162g Katana with fewer bubbles... one day it is going to be your most awesome disc, and you'll wonder why you ever doubted it.

To get there, work on form, no matter how good you are already. And then revisit that Katana...

Absolutely not letting it go. When I started throwing, I couldn't do anything with a DX Katana, and now it is my go to headwind driver. I expect to be able to throw this well at some point. I just want another lightweight one for now.

 

[mike3216]

It's funny; I just noticed that the side profile of these two discs is decidedly different as well.

In ball golf, if your product (balls, irons, fairway woods, whatever) showed the level of variation I'm seeing here, you would be run out of the industry in short order. Just saying. I guess that disc golfers' tendency to seek and hold onto discs with certain individual performance characteristics makes for more tolerance of this kind of variability.

 

[mark996]

Buy 2 of any disc and they could fly differently with the same thrower. Any time a new shipment comes in I'll take my staples in to the shop and check PLH between each new disc and buy the ones that are similar.

 

[Puckstopper]

It comes down largely to price. There is a reason serious golfers pay big money for their clubs and balls. That reason is consistency or at least the perception of consistency. I build my own clubs and have the tools to check loft/lie. You'd be surprised at the variences you can find in even big name clubs if you look at enough of them. With that said, the variences are much more common in cheap starter sets and low end clubs.

Disc golf (at the moment anyway) doesn't have the number of serious, dedicated players willing to spend the kind of money needed to produce absolutely consistent discs. With that said, there are steps you can take to control the variables from disc to disc. 2 of the easiest may also be hard to accept: 1. Quit throwing bubble plastic. 2. Move on from Innova, or accept that there may be significant differences from run to run. I'm not trying to be rude or harsh, but those are realities. Innova is the biggest name in the game and high volume combined with low price leads to inconsistent runs. Discraft and MVP are both known for being more consistent from run to run and might be worth trying.

 

[SD86]

In ball golf, if your product (balls, irons, fairway woods, whatever) showed the level of variation I'm seeing here, you would be run out of the industry in short order. Just saying. I guess that disc golfers' tendency to seek and hold onto discs with certain individual performance characteristics makes for more tolerance of this kind of variability.

Forging iron clubs is different that molding plastics; one can control the specs of working the metal to much tighter tolerances. If the plastic industry tried to be that tight and rejected molds that weren't perfect, they'd go out of business.

Also, the golf balls are not as perfectly uniform as one might think, though they're pretty reasonably consistent.

Last, It's not DGers seeking and holding certain discs, but DGers understanding that 'it is what it is' when it comes to variances in discs.

 

[brutalbrutus]

The older blizz stuff started growing a beard after awhile, lol. The bubbles near the surface would get scraped on by trees and rocks and pop, leading to them having a frayed look. Not sure if the newer blizz is made like this to stop that from happening, but it definitely looks better.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Forging iron clubs is different that molding plastics; one can control the specs of working the metal to much tighter tolerances. If the plastic industry tried to be that tight and rejected molds that weren't perfect, they'd go out of business.

Also, the golf balls are not as perfectly uniform as one might think, though they're pretty reasonably consistent.

Last, It's not DGers seeking and holding certain discs, but DGers understanding that 'it is what it is' when it comes to variances in discs.

I used to work at a fairly nice golf course and I have been playing since I was 4yrs old. I have seen a lot of bad dimples in my time. One of the guys I used to work with bought an 18 pack of proV1s that he had to return cause they were all bad. The dimples were deeper on one side of the ball than the other. He was an older guy that didn't hit the ball very well, so it took a couple holes till we figured out that he wasn't hitting the ball badly, they were actually just spinning weird, depending on which way he tee'd the ball up. The last one he hit looked like a whiffle ball and one of the guys asked to see the ball. He was like "Whoa, that's crazy look at this."

 

[elmexdela]

At the store I could literally stick my finger in a group of bubbles on a blizz disc. Innova is garbage.

I wish I would have taken a picture of it.

 

[mike3216]

It comes down largely to price. There is a reason serious golfers pay big money for their clubs and balls. That reason is consistency or at least the perception of consistency. I build my own clubs and have the tools to check loft/lie. You'd be surprised at the variences you can find in even big name clubs if you look at enough of them. With that said, the variences are much more common in cheap starter sets and low end clubs.

Disc golf (at the moment anyway) doesn't have the number of serious, dedicated players willing to spend the kind of money needed to produce absolutely consistent discs. With that said, there are steps you can take to control the variables from disc to disc. 2 of the easiest may also be hard to accept: 1. Quit throwing bubble plastic. 2. Move on from Innova, or accept that there may be significant differences from run to run. I'm not trying to be rude or harsh, but those are realities. Innova is the biggest name in the game and high volume combined with low price leads to inconsistent runs. Discraft and MVP are both known for being more consistent from run to run and might be worth trying.

I never thought there would be a difference brand to brand.

 

[Puckstopper]

There definitely is, although none of them are perfect. As others have mentioned, buying backups of favored discs from the same run is always a good idea, as is taking the disc you live with you when shopping for those backups.

 

[mike3216]

I used to work at a fairly nice golf course and I have been playing since I was 4yrs old. I have seen a lot of bad dimples in my time. One of the guys I used to work with bought an 18 pack of proV1s that he had to return cause they were all bad. The dimples were deeper on one side of the ball than the other. He was an older guy that didn't hit the ball very well, so it took a couple holes till we figured out that he wasn't hitting the ball badly, they were actually just spinning weird, depending on which way he tee'd the ball up. The last one he hit looked like a whiffle ball and one of the guys asked to see the ball. He was like "Whoa, that's crazy look at this."

That surprises me about the ProV1s. They are so expensive.......

 

[SD86]

That surprises me about the ProV1s. They are so expensive.......

If you consider that something like one billion (with a 'b') golf balls are lost each year, it's staggering that golf balls are as consistent as they are...

 

[mike3216]

If you consider that something like one billion (with a 'b') golf balls are lost each year, it's staggering that golf balls are as consistent as they are...

I suspect most of those lost are "range rocks" lost by golfers like me, not ProV1s. Guys who hit those are usually a bit better at staying on the fairway and out of trouble.
:\

 

[mike3216]

Innova is the biggest name in the game and high volume combined with low price leads to inconsistent runs. Discraft and MVP are both known for being more consistent from run to run and might be worth trying.

It really should be the opposite. The bigger the volume, the more you should have your process nailed down. It requires a disciplined approach, and since Innova is obviously selling the most discs, they probably don't see a need for it. In my industry, we have had to deal with suppliers (plastic bottles, caps, etc.) who thought they could get away without a high level of process control, and we've had to beat them into shape.

Innova obviously has specifications, because they always have plenty of F2nds for sale. It makes me suspect a haphazard approach to quality.

 

[Grogden]

I am a big fan of blizz kats and bosses..
The kats are without a doubt super long and I am accurate with them at 400+..on open couses....no no headwinds for sure...some are slightly domier.these seem to lglide well and be a little more stable...longest most understable is a flattish 156..go figure....most stable blizz boss is a 136 heartbeat dome....will be a monster flyer .
I think these work well if you have clean form the or terrible if you get any oat to them.. I throw putters a lot for drives up to around 3:00 I think that helps keep me clean for the blizz discs

 

[elmexdela]

i used to know a dude who had a blizz katana 130 ish grams and used it as a headwind disc it was freaky os