TAE The Quest to Rebuild Form from the ground up.

[ThrowaEnvy]

Time for some help be all I can be.

Particulars:
Gonna pull the baby grand trick in a few years (late 40's), tradesman so pretty busted, definitely not limber. Surgery and damage to my left (point leg), twinges in the right. Definitely some lower vertebra issues haha. Sore cracky back, etc. Might be faster to tell you what doesn't hurt.

LHBH thrower primarily with a serviceable FH. Off and on discer since the late 80's. I'm telling myself I can still hit 300'.

Fell down the form rabbit hole last year, made some advances following HUB but got lost and muddled somewhere around about lesson 2. My early throw was modeled after the one Dan Beato video and the "More Snap" one. The Mike C overview and Rhatton1 widerail diagram has been another point of reference.

It's too wet to video today but I figured I would at least start a thread, kinda like buying a gym membership as a commitment to do better.

I've been off and on lately with my throw. I have been making a critical grip error for the last year and lost too much oomph. Time to get back to basics and try to figure this out again one small piece at a time

Discovered recently I have been shying away from a solid power grip. I've been working on a later, fuller snap and imparting a little OAT (I think). Added 30' immediately and some "power" I thought I'd lost.

Any thoughts on the grip? (Typically my thumb is more on top for BH, I moved it for the stack finger photo). I also cram the pad of my middle finger onto the rim, aligned with the inside knuckle and wrap my forefinger underneath, spreading my fingers and locking the disc in place so I can transfer as much power as possible.

 

[HB2017]

Your BH grip seems like it would predispose you to a nose-up release.

 

[sidewinder22]

I use the modified power grip where the middle and index finger tips are curled onto the rim, while the index and pinky pads are on the rim, and the distal pinky finger joint is extended/not curled.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Thanks folks. I will snap another pic with my thumb on top like normal.... I appreciate the feedback and will try the modified grip.

Kinda sorting through past grips... Haha. I got myself in trouble with the birdie grip for mids, worked great on a comet for straight flight but I got so comfortable the power grip felt wrong. On the plus side over the last year I'm thumping my putters and mids out to 200' and 240' respectively. Drivers maybe 300' probably 280'

 

[Countchunkula]

Thanks folks. I will snap another pic with my thumb on top like normal.... I appreciate the feedback and will try the modified grip.

Kinda sorting through past grips... Haha. I got myself in trouble with the birdie grip for mids, worked great on a comet for straight flight but I got so comfortable the power grip felt wrong. On the plus side over the last year I'm thumping my putters and mids out to 200' and 240' respectively. Drivers maybe 300' probably 280'

I'm doing something similar on the grip side. Birdie grip on mids and slower. 2 finger power grip on anything faster than a mid. I used to use a 4 finger power grip on fast discs and would have similar issues switching back and forth. The 2 finger feels more natural than 4 for me, so I've had less issues adjusting after that change.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Just dropping this here, funny the standstill figure 8 got bumped today...

I'm doing something similar on the grip side. Birdie grip on mids and slower. 2 finger power grip on anything faster than a mid. I used to use a 4 finger power grip on fast discs and would have similar issues switching back and forth. The 2 finger feels more natural than 4 for me, so I've had less issues adjusting after that change.

I just can't do the two finger anymore or the Bonaparte, I like the spreading of the little finger and the rest of em kinda like sw22 was saying, I haven't looked for a pic of that grip. I lock it in place by flipping it downwards a little or pulling on my disc with the off hand. My first two fingers are definitely the "power ones"... thumb in a spot as if I just snapped my fingers.. I kind of snap them on release.

Birdie grip the thumb makes an indent in the disc between fore and middle fingers.

Many of my "relapses" have started as grip problems, I think. No slips get a grip!

 

[Brychanus]

Just an observation from hammerland:

Regardless of the details, every time I work on grip, the more it feels like holding a hammer I could swing out to smash aside me, the better everything else gets. I notice that any time I meander into a grip that loses that sweet spot between firmness and looseness, or has some funny wrist angle or finger pressure going on, my body relapses into some version of weaker mechanics overall. I think there's a very real brain effect of telling your whole body "we're gonna lever this MFer out there" starting with the grip. My grip has ended up pretty similar to SW's not just because I learn so much from him, but it just turns out that the way my hand is shaped and swings other stuff for force it works well for me too. So it's as much about the grip as how that grip interacts with the rest of your chain.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Well I'm rusty as all heck. I was working with an excavator which meant a lot of time on a shovel and in a trench for the last couple weeks but I was gaining some flexibility back this weekend and thought I should just get a video up here for better for worse as a marker of where I am at right now.

Definitely falling over, definitely not leading with the hips enough. Too much arm. Unfortunately my practice stretch has about a 5' upwards incline so throwing flat will require me clearing out my old practice tee and the trees around it. Haha.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, you push off your rear heel and extend your rear knee which tips you over top the plant leg/brace. Don't fall don't the stairs in Swivel Stairs.

Practice dragging your rear toes on the ground so you finish stacked up and balanced on front leg.

Address/Finish position:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134167

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Just dropped in to say thanks. I appreciate the advice, some of these low level ones must be monotonous haha but the kick in the right direction really helped me out. Many thanks.

Geez so i had zero rotation in the hips or it was lagging bad... So working on that, I pretty much added 15' the first day, gained back about 25'-30' overall. Going through the drills but focusing on rotating, leading and loading. The swivel stairs helped, but since I don't have a full flight of stairs, every time I'm walking stairs on an empty job I'm doing it sideways

Having trouble with dragging the foot but focusing on a more upright balance. I'll video again when I'm putting it together better or the end of the month whatever comes first. My practice area moved back but I'm going to need to clear the old one out soon at this rate.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Progress report.. not my best standing tall effort, no rear shoulder engagement but I'm happy with the footwork progress, with a balance between distance and pain haha. It felt good but it was sloppiler than some of my comet throws. Still wrangling some import issues with the 240 slow mo.

I need to work on my point leg gently to get foot rotation so I've been playing in slipper moccasins.. went way too hard on it last week and I can see where my original injury came from. Just a easy 180' glitch throw.

 

[Brychanus]

Nice Envy ;-)

I think you want to get your throwing shoulder loaded back over the rear leg into the backswing with a bit of side bend:

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Nice Envy ;-)

I think you want to get your throwing shoulder loaded back over the rear leg into the backswing with a bit of side bend:

Roger that, thanks for weighing in I especially appreciate input with your injury list haha.

I will focus on that as the next progression. The pool cue against the wall is an interesting concept.

Yeah I got a long ways to go... from what I "feel" which is subjective thing, I retained my arm timing through my form breakdown with my slow x step that wasn't rotating properly anymore. When I got my legs and hips back in I could feel the swing but my arm has gone to the noodle twilight zone, it's there but it's not. I've watched a lot of the videos but haven't understood them properly.

My straight arm Beato action is gone for a droopy something or other... sometimes it's a battering ram/ pendulum, the S wide rail is too much to do right now but i feel it coming on the figure 8 it's more of a 6. It's frustrating right now to lose whole tuned components. I'm popping more nose up shots than ever before but I can't compensate with us discs because of torque and RAW POWER!! haha

Time to pull out my FR ESP Force and throw it 300'! Coming soon to a basket far far away... haha shades of being a kid but TAS is dead.

Do you or anyone have any input on arm swing? Should I be trying to Beato, wide rail, or just rotate a battering ram? I'm going to stick with the back/side step for a bit unless it's idiotic.. but I'm getting results and a feel with low impact. Pretty sure my slow x step caused these problems.

 

[Sewer bill]

Disclaimer* not a disc golf swing coach.

I think swing shape and type is entirely anatomical and unique to each person. The different types can guide you to what feels best. What feels best is often what will work best and won't tear your body up.

Throw wise per your recent video it looks like you aren't getting much rotation in your hips and you're reaching around on the backswing but that could just be a prospective thing.

The pool stick against the wall thing is an excellent way to get the sensation of moving around the disc and how it feels.

Also you should sell me that fr force.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Also you should sell me that fr force.

Thanks man any advice is appreciated. I'm hoping the arm components come back together naturally. Haha well you missed the three other first run forces I dumped last year, I can't get rid of this one I hit the lone ace at the BC provincials in 2021 with it, at about 300' and it is Beautifully Broken in, haha

 

[texasissouth]

This is probably the most impactful video personally when it comes to standstills.
Feel-wise you want to feel like you're pushing with your back foot during/to start the entire motion of the throw. This should be coupled with turning the hips so that your butt is facing the target moreso than the rest of your hips.

Also slight rounding in the upper body, keep the disc away from you, you don't need to bend the elbow much during a reachback. Look at Barry Schultz or Philo. It will feel weird and slow at first but that's fine.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, you lose the tilted spiral/side bend going back and forth.