Lazerface
Eagle Member
I have never ran an event, but am aware there are guidelines TDs must follow outlined in the competition manual. Is there anything that says a TD must hand out some sort of player guide, caddy book, etc when there are specific OB rules in place that are not documented on a sign or anywhere else? Is announcing the OB rules at the players meeting enough?
CASE: B-Tier this past weekend has a handful of holes on one course that have long grass areas that typically play as OB (regular OB rules). The grass was not necessarily as long as it typically is, but it is brown as opposed to green and very obvious standing on the tee, but they did not spray paint a line, so decided not to play them as traditional OB (which really ruins the course, but OK). Per the TD as of this year they are now allowed to do a distance only penalty for OB areas, so per his instruction players who landed in the long grass area were to place the disc where it was last in bounds (per normal OB rules), but without the stroke penalty.
One hole with long grass (18) actually has a roped area that is inside the long grass creating an island inside an island if you will. On that hole, we were told to play it where it lies, and DO take a stroke penalty (because the rope clearly marks an OB line).
OK, that's not too complicated...... On hole 16 there are two long grass areas on each side of the fairway. They are both brown and create a fairway of green grass between them. There is no reason to think that these two areas would be played differently. My card and all the open cards we saw, were playing as instructed - change the lie per regular OB rules but no penalty. Then we walk by an AM card and the guy says he called the TD and was gold the "left side" was "play where you land" no penalty, but the right side was the other rule "change lie, no penalty". Nobody on our card or any other person playing recalls this being said at the meeting. Apparently, it was decided we would have 3 different rules for the long grass on the course, none of which is reflected on tee signs or any material handed out to the player.
When we get back to tournament central the chaos begins. The main player who was arguing and the TD both handled it poorly (yelling, vulgar, etc), but again, ONLY the TD remembers clarifying this rule that applied only to the left side of hole 16 during the players meeting, not a single competitor I spoke to could verify this. However, 2 poor arguments were put forth by the TD 1) We have played that area that way for years now - that obviously means nothing for anyone not familiar with the course and 2) That grass is actually cut the same length as the fairway - even if that's true, that area is dark brown and it's the exact same type of grass in all other long grass areas, all of which are pretty short/matted down this time of year. But they are all brown, and a totally different type of grass (prairie type stuff) than the actual course. No person would ever assume it's any different than the other areas.
So, after much deliberation and realizing that so many players played it "wrong" the TD decides to negate the whole completely and throw out that score from each players total. All things considered, I think that was the correct call, but I was not playing for much. However, this negation actually changed the MPO top two players from being tied, to the the winner taking it down by one. Yea, 2nd place MPO guy was not happy, but kept his cool. He deserves some credit for that.
As far as the provisionals go - the TD did say, "why didn't you throw a provisional" and I tried to calmly explain to him that there would be no reason for anyone unfamiliar with the course to think that the exact grass on one side of the fairway played different from the other side. I referenced his poor arguments about what they "have done before" and the "different length". IT's a brown island for fack sake.
So, given that story, does the PDGA require materials be handed out or some other sort of reference (defined on tee sign) for rules that are outside of normal OB like sidewalks/roads, water, and clearly marked artificial OB? Even the single variance on hole 18 with the roped area inside of the long grass area was difficult for my card to remember. I told them what I recalled, but we had a player throw a provisional just in case.
CASE: B-Tier this past weekend has a handful of holes on one course that have long grass areas that typically play as OB (regular OB rules). The grass was not necessarily as long as it typically is, but it is brown as opposed to green and very obvious standing on the tee, but they did not spray paint a line, so decided not to play them as traditional OB (which really ruins the course, but OK). Per the TD as of this year they are now allowed to do a distance only penalty for OB areas, so per his instruction players who landed in the long grass area were to place the disc where it was last in bounds (per normal OB rules), but without the stroke penalty.
One hole with long grass (18) actually has a roped area that is inside the long grass creating an island inside an island if you will. On that hole, we were told to play it where it lies, and DO take a stroke penalty (because the rope clearly marks an OB line).
OK, that's not too complicated...... On hole 16 there are two long grass areas on each side of the fairway. They are both brown and create a fairway of green grass between them. There is no reason to think that these two areas would be played differently. My card and all the open cards we saw, were playing as instructed - change the lie per regular OB rules but no penalty. Then we walk by an AM card and the guy says he called the TD and was gold the "left side" was "play where you land" no penalty, but the right side was the other rule "change lie, no penalty". Nobody on our card or any other person playing recalls this being said at the meeting. Apparently, it was decided we would have 3 different rules for the long grass on the course, none of which is reflected on tee signs or any material handed out to the player.
When we get back to tournament central the chaos begins. The main player who was arguing and the TD both handled it poorly (yelling, vulgar, etc), but again, ONLY the TD remembers clarifying this rule that applied only to the left side of hole 16 during the players meeting, not a single competitor I spoke to could verify this. However, 2 poor arguments were put forth by the TD 1) We have played that area that way for years now - that obviously means nothing for anyone not familiar with the course and 2) That grass is actually cut the same length as the fairway - even if that's true, that area is dark brown and it's the exact same type of grass in all other long grass areas, all of which are pretty short/matted down this time of year. But they are all brown, and a totally different type of grass (prairie type stuff) than the actual course. No person would ever assume it's any different than the other areas.
So, after much deliberation and realizing that so many players played it "wrong" the TD decides to negate the whole completely and throw out that score from each players total. All things considered, I think that was the correct call, but I was not playing for much. However, this negation actually changed the MPO top two players from being tied, to the the winner taking it down by one. Yea, 2nd place MPO guy was not happy, but kept his cool. He deserves some credit for that.
As far as the provisionals go - the TD did say, "why didn't you throw a provisional" and I tried to calmly explain to him that there would be no reason for anyone unfamiliar with the course to think that the exact grass on one side of the fairway played different from the other side. I referenced his poor arguments about what they "have done before" and the "different length". IT's a brown island for fack sake.
So, given that story, does the PDGA require materials be handed out or some other sort of reference (defined on tee sign) for rules that are outside of normal OB like sidewalks/roads, water, and clearly marked artificial OB? Even the single variance on hole 18 with the roped area inside of the long grass area was difficult for my card to remember. I told them what I recalled, but we had a player throw a provisional just in case.
