Technical question on forehand form

[mizunodave]

Working on my forehand and I keep hearing one piece of advice I want to understand better. "Keep your palm up, towards the sky."

I've heard this in videos from Stokely, Jerm, and other pros. The only reason I've ever heard for this is "to make sure you don't roll your wrist." Rolling the wrist is bad because it summons the OAT monster.

Is that the only reason palm up is recommended over, let's call it handshake mode?

I ask because I feel you can snap the wrist closed with more power and more articulation from handshake mode than from palm up. With palm up I can articulate (open to closed) about 90 degrees. Whereas in handshake mode it is more like 120 degrees. It also feels like handshake mode lets your forearm muscles help pull your wrist closed faster/stronger. Also, from handshake I can snap my fingers towards my palm at launch and get a little extra spin, can't do that with palm up.

Is there any disadvantage to handshake mode as long as you don't roll your wrist?

From my own experiments I can throw a buzz flat and smooth with no wobble either way, is that a good enough test that I'm not rolling my wrist from handshake?

I just want to make sure I'm not missing something in the physics of all this. I'm good if the answer is simply, "Do whichever works best for you as long as you aren't getting wobble."

Finally, if anyone is aware of some resource that goes into all the technical details and physics of throws I'd be interested. I can probably work out the mechanics from there.

Thanks

 

[PWaggoner]

Try it with a ultimate frizbee.

 

[Armus Patheticus]

Do whichever works best for you as long as you aren't getting wobble.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yes, handshake it for a flat throw. Adjust for hyzer with a smile arc(spank it) or anhyzer frown arc(high five).

 

[DiscLoser1]

I'm not sure of any tecnical resouces, but I thought Scott Stokely's clinic from Worlds this year was pretty good. It's on YouTube.

Depending how new you are to FH or if you can swallow your manly pride, Jessica Weese does a FH demo at the end of her recent ITB. My form is nothing like hers but I find watching the ladies generate power can offer some concise ideas about mechanics.

 

[timothy42b]

I liked the Stokely clinic. I don't throw forehand yet but his description of why we need it was compelling.

I too questioned the palm up vs palm forward idea.

More basic, do we need the wrist movement?

If we do not, palm up is less variable. If we do, palm forward (slap instead of karate chop) offers much more motion.

Racket players generally stiffen their wrist, with some exceptions. Tennis pros have told me you can get a huge increase in power by using the wrist but you can't time it to get the direction right.

Not offering a solution, just echoing that it's a question for me too.

 

[grotto]

^^^^
Ever skipped a stone? How well does it skip if you roll your wrist over or have no wrist snap/movement?

This isn't tennis or racquetball. We are throwing the object, not using an object to hit another object.

 

[DiscLoser1]

Without the wrist movement in a FH, you would be throwing some kind of inefficient whole arm fling, or worse, drawing power from the elbow (baseball throw), which I guarantee will hurt.

The progression of movement in the FH should be shoulder(upper arm) > elbow > wrist, where the shoulder and wrist provide the power and the elbow is only the fulcrum.

And timing of the wrist is everything, and can be tricky and definitely cause directional issues. But that's what practice is for.

 

[rampazzo]

I'm more of an ultimate player who occasionally goes disc golfing than a proper disc golfer, and I can assure you that 100% of ultimate players who have good forehand deep throws are throwing them palm up. People throw palm forward, but they never get any power compared to people who throw palm up. I'm talking 30-40 yards max distance vs 70-80 with an ultra-star.

 

[mark996]

For what its worth, my forearm game was garbage until I learned to keep my elbow in, and use more wrist flick vs arm motion. As a former baseball player, I tried throwing it like a baseball, making a throw from 3rd, etc and it never worked, I was over powering it bad. After I slowed everything down and focused on more smaller movements, I got my flick out to about 300 feet now, as to where it was about 200, on a good day.

 

[Pbmercil]

"Palm to the sky" is really a myth. If you actually have the Palm up at the hit your disc will be nose up and go nowhere. Took me a long time to figure this out. Its really a follow thru technique tought to keep you from torquing your wrist over and getting an uncontrollable anny every time. The wrist needs to be in "handshake" or "slap" orientation at the hit. Palm up is about a controlled follow thru, not a release angle

 

[Pbmercil]

I'm more of an ultimate player who occasionally goes disc golfing than a proper disc golfer, and I can assure you that 100% of ultimate players who have good forehand deep throws are throwing them palm up. People throw palm forward, but they never get any power compared to people who throw palm up. I'm talking 30-40 yards max distance vs 70-80 with an ultra-star.

Comparing distance forehand from ultimate lids to golf discs is a bad idea. The discs reaction to the forces applied are very different. Putter or touch forehand are a dif story

 

[ShoopDaGoose]

^^^^
Ever skipped a stone? How well does it skip if you roll your wrist over or have no wrist snap/movement?

This isn't tennis or racquetball. We are throwing the object, not using an object to hit another object.

I'm not contradicting for the sake of contradiction, but I feel compelled to point a couple things out...

1. RHFH stone skipping produces clockwise spin, while RHFH disc throwing produces counter-clockwise spin.
2. I'm fairly decent at tennis, and VERY decent at a RHFH (baseball background) and I think swinging a tennis racket is the closest form to throwing a disc forehand...but your racket in this case, is your fingers. My success has been from staying on plane, and a smooth, well timed flicka da wrist.

My hand is in between handshake and palm up. I have plenty of wrist movement. Doing the motion without a disc and loose fingers (focusing on wrist angle) looks as if I was slapping someone on the butt, because there's a slight upward angle of the hand to contour said cheek, haha. I have not slapped someone on the butt, but it does not mean I haven't wanted to

 

[Pbmercil]

This isn't tennis or racquetball. We are throwing the object, not using an object to hit another object.

BS! We are leveraging an object to get the head speed (outside edge of the disc) as fast as possible. We ARE swinging a raquet, bat, club, ect. Its just short and circular

 

[Peter S]

Great new video from Jessica Weese on side arm shots after her in the bag. On youtube as -
Jessica Weese: In The Bag + Sidearm Tips


sorry I was not able to link it.

 

[rampazzo]

Comparing distance forehand from ultimate lids to golf discs is a bad idea. The discs reaction to the forces applied are very different. Putter or touch forehand are a dif story

They're closer than you think. Most ultimate players are bad throwers. All the big ultimate throwers say palm up. All the big disc golf FH throwers say palm up. A disc golf driver has a thicker rim and a lower profile, but it still moves according to the same physics and is still imparted with spin and velocity from the thrower, both of which are necessary to get distance with any disc.

 

[timothy42b]

The Stokely clinic showed a two finger grip that would only work palm up.

But I've seen another video where the fingers were stacked so they would work palm forward.

Is there some disagreement here, or is conventional wisdom palm up?

 

[sidewinder22]

Grip does make a difference as does the shot.

Jerm not following his own advice:

 

[Pbmercil]

Thanks SW, I was going to post the same video. There is other slow mo footage out there that shows the same thing. Neutral to down wrist at the hit, and then they'll turn their Palm up after the disc is our

 

[Pbmercil]

The Stokely clinic showed a two finger grip that would only work palm up.

But I've seen another video where the fingers were stacked so they would work palm forward.

Is there some disagreement here, or is conventional wisdom palm up?

I hadn't thought of it that way but that's probably true. You will see a lot of power grip sidearm throwers still talk about "palm up" though. Avery is a good example. His grip wouldn't work if the palm orientation at the hit really was up. So he's in handshake mode at the hit, but then follows thru palm up after the disc is out. I've seen footage of Wysocki that shows the same thing.

Basically I'm arguing with conventional wisdom based on what I've seen.