The Inevitable 2017 Pros Switching Sponsors Thread

[Finny]

Tennis? I'd like to see your source on that.

2015 Top 10 Tennis Earners (endorsements, prize money)

Roger Federer $52 million $4.2 million
Rafael Nadal $30 million $14.5 million
Novak Djokovic $21 Million $12.1 million
Maria Sharapova $22 million $2.4 million
Li Na $18 million $5.6 million
Serena Williams $11 million $11 million
Andy Murray $15 million $4.1 million
Victoria Azarenka $7.5 million $3.6 million
Kei Nishikori $2 million $9 million
Caroline Wozniacki $9.5 million $1.3 million

 

[Vonbeezy1]

2015 Top 10 Tennis Earners (endorsements, prize money)

Roger Federer $52 million $4.2 million
Rafael Nadal $30 million $14.5 million
Novak Djokovic $21 Million $12.1 million
Maria Sharapova $22 million $2.4 million
Li Na $18 million $5.6 million
Serena Williams $11 million $11 million
Andy Murray $15 million $4.1 million
Victoria Azarenka $7.5 million $3.6 million
Kei Nishikori $2 million $9 million
Caroline Wozniacki $9.5 million $1.3 million

You just proved yourself wrong :wall:

 

[slowplastic]

So women athletes should only earn the same as men if they can beat men? That's not going to happen in almost any sport, so you'd have to be fine with women athletes ALWAYS making less than men.

If Innova gives her a much worse contract than McBeth, they are pretty blatantly saying that winning Worlds for a woman means less than for a man. I can't see how that's a defensible position.

Again, I don't have a fully developed opinion of this. But, somewhat, yeah. This isn't an office job where I fully believe anyone who does the work the same should be paid the same. This is where someone is better at the skill set, competing on a larger stage (more men in Open, all have higher ratings than the FPO, more disc golfers are male, more viewers are male...all by a large margin), and more money in MPO tournaments because of more entered competitors...also more disc sales because of this all to men. These are all reasons why you could say that winning Worlds for a woman isn't as impressive as it is for a man...note I said could, as you were asking what angle to look at that from.

Also, I assume most disc golfers don't get near the contract of McBeth...several players left for Prodigy when McBeth was convinced to stay. I know zero actual facts about these contracts, etc. But also look at how many more discs he has his name on compared to any other pro from any company in disc golf.

 

[Finny]

Eh, see, now you lost me. You're saying that a company should use their profits to charitably provide a living wage to someone, when that someone decided to choose a profession that doesn't pay well.

Innova's decided to sponsor players. If you're going to wade into those waters, I think you look like a bunch of jerks when a female player can barely make a living while lavishing a male player with an equal resume with all the perks.

 

[Finny]

You just proved yourself wrong :wall:

Half of the top 10 earners in the world are female. Name another major sport where that happens.

 

[Emoney]

Terry, you sold me 2 DGA discs about 4 years ago and they didn't improve my scores. They have since been sold or lost.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Keep up the great vids!

 

[Broken Shoulder]

Innova's decided to sponsor players. If you're going to wade into those waters, I think you look like a bunch of jerks when a female player can barely make a living while lavishing a male player with an equal resume with all the perks.

But innova is not responsible for that reality.

As I said, it'd be great if it were equal, but that's not the reality of disc golf right now.

 

[Vonbeezy1]

Innova's decided to sponsor players. If you're going to wade into those waters, I think you look like a bunch of jerks when a female player can barely make a living while lavishing a male player with an equal resume with all the perks.

Scenario.
Me and you work for the same company but different divisions. We both are the top sales person at our respectable divisions and have the same accolades. The only difference is at your division, you have 100 other sales people and mine only has 10 to compete against. Youve sold much more than me and have been more valuable to your division. Do you think my bonus and salary should be as much as yours?

 

[Finny]

Again, I don't have a fully developed opinion of this. But, somewhat, yeah. This isn't an office job where I fully believe anyone who does the work the same should be paid the same. This is where someone is better at the skill set, competing on a larger stage (more men in Open, all have higher ratings than the FPO, more disc golfers are male, more viewers are male...all by a large margin), and more money in MPO tournaments because of more entered competitors...also more disc sales because of this all to men. These are all reasons why you could say that winning Worlds for a woman isn't as impressive as it is for a man...note I said could, as you were asking what angle to look at that from.

Also, I assume most disc golfers don't get near the contract of McBeth...several players left for Prodigy when McBeth was convinced to stay. I know zero actual facts about these contracts, etc. But also look at how many more discs he has his name on compared to any other pro from any company in disc golf.

I know I've been putting up a fight here, but I do understand this viewpoint. But in disc golf, no athlete is really bringing in any money. So there's less of a reason to have such a huge disparity in support.

 

[Vonbeezy1]

Half of the top 10 earners in the world are female. Name another major sport where that happens.

While that may be true, they still are not earning more than men. The top 2 male tennis players made more than the 5 top females

 

[Finny]

Scenario.
Me and you work for the same company but different divisions. We both are the top sales person at our respectable divisions and have the same accolades. The only difference is at your division, you have 100 other sales people and mine only has 10 to compete against. Youve sold much more than me and have been more valuable to your division. Do you think my bonus and salary should be as much as yours?

Kinda! Also, as I said above, I just don't think that any male disc golfer is the 100 to Val's 10 here.

The better comparison is Val versus Nate Sexton. (Because McBeth might be the only disc golfer who actually moves the needle.) If Sexton is getting a lot more support than Val, that's nonsense. And my guess is that he is/was.

 

[Reniger]

*ehem* Big Jerm's sig disc?



Hint, hint, wink, wink, casual nod....

 

[GoldeyeGolf]

I know I've been putting up a fight here, but I do understand this viewpoint. But in disc golf, no athlete is really bringing in any money. So there's less of a reason to have such a huge disparity in support.

Don't agree with this at all. I think McBeth has been responsible for bringing in a lot of money to Innova. He's probably under compensated, really.

 

[DanJon]

Innova's decided to sponsor players. If you're going to wade into those waters, I think you look like a bunch of jerks when a female player can barely make a living while lavishing a male player with an equal resume with all the perks.

The majority of pro disc golfers, male or female, barely make a living off of disc golf alone.

You really think she has an equal resume to McBeth?

Or brings in the same amount of revenue?

 

[slowplastic]

I know I've been putting up a fight here, but I do understand this viewpoint. But in disc golf, no athlete is really bringing in any money. So there's less of a reason to have such a huge disparity in support.

I'm sure McBeth is, but other than that, probably not much money because of other people.

What I hope happens, is that whatever Val is doing raises more awareness or promotes more female disc golf. My biggest problem with watching FPO coverage is that there are only a handful of players with proper form and a big variety of shots. I want to see a deeper pool of skilled players, not just 2 at the top competing against each other and 15-20 strokes ahead of everyone else at the tournament. Just having a few women supported for touring, doing clinics at the stops to help increase local women disc golfers, and showing that girls can throw 400'+ shots on the course to all the guys and girls out there...that's what I want to see happen. I feel like that almost grassroots type exposure is how to increase disc sales...getting way more people into the game instead of just trying to show all the medium-armed guys what 14 speed to buy next to try to get another 20' (tip: it won't help you...).

 

[Finny]

I acknowledge that McBeth is a bad comparison. Wish I'd said Sexton in the beginning.

But I do think McBeth and Val have comparable resumes.

 

[SD86]

Actually, I can make a case that DG treats women MUCH better than women in other sports and professions are treated.

Women actresses in general make less than their male counterparts. You can find that exception where a female actress makes more that most males, but IN GENERAL men make more.

In basketball, it's no contest. I can find an NBA game pretty easily; I don't even know where to look to find a WNBA game if I wanted to see one.

Golf ball golf: I used to love being a marshal at LPGA events, and I'd watch LPGA golf on TV partially because I'd met a lot of the players. But the LPGA is no where near as popular as the PGA.

Yes, the disc golf videos are mostly men's events, but I do find women's cards filmed and presented (kudos to The Disc Golf Guy for making an effort to do this :thmbup: ), and I'll bet we know the female DG players much better than most anyone here could name the top WNBA or LPGA players....

So I don't know what Val's complaints are, but she obviously has some, and she's dropping Innova and brewing beer. Sounds like a plan.

 

[pandabaer6496]

I know this sounds bad and all, but I don't think for a moment that McBeth and Val have similar resumes. As it has already been said, the talent pool in MPO is much deeper than FPO. This is similar to when Climo was winning worlds every year in the 90s. I for one find McBeth winning four in a row in today's era more impressive exactly because of the competition that he now has to face. Aside from Climo, the idea that Val winning the same number of world titles makes her resume on par with McBeth's is laughable. Aside from marketability, McBeth has competed in a much more stacked talent pool, and that has to be taken account of. I hope we get to the point where the FPO field is more talent-rich and more women have a legitimate chance of winning worlds, but that's not where we are right now.

 

[loki the trickster]

*ehem* Big Jerm's sig disc?



Hint, hint, wink, wink, casual nod....

I think you meant to say tour series.

 

[lyleoross]

I agree with the rest of your post, but I wonder about this part. Would fewer people have bought the Tern if Innovative had put Val's name on it? Personally, I doubt it.

I can't argue the point. Somewhere in the bowels of DGCR someone posted that JKs name on the Ball hurt sales. I've seen no evidence but admit that comment influenced my thoughts. I had a JK ball so, meh.