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You mean he's not a role model?
That's just turrable.
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The Next McBeth
- Thread starter samhammy
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That's just turrable.
Missed? Maybe...missing is the better word. I think Eagle represents the typical pro we're going to see during the next (current?) wave of disc golf. Someone with the skill set to do well at tournaments plus have a decent social media presence to move product. But will never dominate the sport, due to too many players at the top with similar skills.
I think the sport is going to look back at Lizotte and think what could of been. Contrary to Paul's journey, Simon was pretty much raised early on just to play disc golf and with his early success, perhaps pressure to be the best in the game. Maybe the pressure of owning up to that was too much and he just developed a more casual mindset to what success in this sport means to him. Contrast that to Paige Pierce who was also groomed for disc golf success early on but has maintained the drive to be the best through out her career.
Simon Lizotte Background Story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCxsCWe9KPg
Paige Pierce Background Story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXuatD8CSGU
If anything we may see several "1X" champs in the coming years. Which is probably good for the sport as it will allow fans to cheer for their favorite players and see them succeed. Maybe that's where we're at.. grow the fan base more, bring in some serious money and attract the next level disc golf athlete. But still... what could that athlete bring new to the sport in it's current form that would provide enough skill separation to be the next McBeth?
opcorn:medic5888
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Aderhold is the next biggest star I think. But I do not think he will catch Mcbeth any time soon.
raceface59
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It seems that the difference between McBeth and everyone else, is that everyone else "just wants to get along", so to speak. He wants to crush everything and everyone in his way and knows exactly how to do it without any remorse. That attitude is hard to beat. There are other pros out there that are really fun to watch play (I could watch Kevin Jones hurl grenades all day) but you don't really sit there in your chair and go "oh crap, here he goes....." like when McBeth is in it and the chips are down.
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It's funny, in many ways Paul is not the most fun pro to watch. It's like watching 90s Greg Maddux pitch. It's going to be two maybe three different throws executed really well with very few errors.
Kevin Jones, Eagle, And many others are super fun to watch but don't have the same degree of near hypnotic excellence.
Kevin Jones, Eagle, And many others are super fun to watch but don't have the same degree of near hypnotic excellence.
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seriously disagree
nobody else in the game has similar skills to Eagle. and the fact that he may be "missing" his window looks like evidence that at the highest level, skill set is secondary to mental game. and Simon is another great example. legendary skills, motivated competitor, but not a killer.
when looking for the next McBeth, i think looking for the players with the mental game is the key
Professionalism
I think there's another factor that I don't see mentioned in the first three threads.
It's somewhat related to the "between the ears" or "mental game" that everyone keeps referencing. Yes, making the best shots in the biggest moments, the killer instinct, staying cool under pressure, and bouncing back from adversity on the course is important. But I think a big part (maybe even the biggest part?) of what makes McBeth so special is the way he has constantly carried himself off the course and the way he has become an ambassador of this sport. For lack of a perfect term, I'll call it "professionalism."
He could have just as many NT or Worlds victories or the same amazing ratings, but it's the rare combination of killer instinct with that professional conduct that earns him the fans. He has a vision for where he wants disc golf to go and where he wants his career and brand to go. He doesn't exactly seek attention, but he knows how to handle the attention that has come with his success as well as the biggest names in any mainstream sport. He would never have taken disc golf to the million dollar level without that aspect of his game, which is just as big off the course as on it.
Granted, I became aware of professional disc golf in early/mid 2015, when I watched the classic CCDG videos of 2014 PDGA Worlds. That was the classic Paul/Ricky overtime showdown where all of the aforementioned attributes were on full display while Paul won his three-peat. That was also right around the time that disc golf media exploded, particularly on YouTube. Since then, he has won two more worlds (2015 and 2019) and came in second three times (2016-2018). While there have been several times that there seemed to be a better player (mainly Ricky), there has never been a time that he was NOT at the forefront of all things disc golf. All that is to say that I did not know of Paul McBeth in his early days, for his first two world championships, when he may have been less than the consummate professional. But I can barely find record of those days on DGCR or on YouTube.
I think there's another factor that I don't see mentioned in the first three threads.
It's somewhat related to the "between the ears" or "mental game" that everyone keeps referencing. Yes, making the best shots in the biggest moments, the killer instinct, staying cool under pressure, and bouncing back from adversity on the course is important. But I think a big part (maybe even the biggest part?) of what makes McBeth so special is the way he has constantly carried himself off the course and the way he has become an ambassador of this sport. For lack of a perfect term, I'll call it "professionalism."
He could have just as many NT or Worlds victories or the same amazing ratings, but it's the rare combination of killer instinct with that professional conduct that earns him the fans. He has a vision for where he wants disc golf to go and where he wants his career and brand to go. He doesn't exactly seek attention, but he knows how to handle the attention that has come with his success as well as the biggest names in any mainstream sport. He would never have taken disc golf to the million dollar level without that aspect of his game, which is just as big off the course as on it.
Granted, I became aware of professional disc golf in early/mid 2015, when I watched the classic CCDG videos of 2014 PDGA Worlds. That was the classic Paul/Ricky overtime showdown where all of the aforementioned attributes were on full display while Paul won his three-peat. That was also right around the time that disc golf media exploded, particularly on YouTube. Since then, he has won two more worlds (2015 and 2019) and came in second three times (2016-2018). While there have been several times that there seemed to be a better player (mainly Ricky), there has never been a time that he was NOT at the forefront of all things disc golf. All that is to say that I did not know of Paul McBeth in his early days, for his first two world championships, when he may have been less than the consummate professional. But I can barely find record of those days on DGCR or on YouTube.
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i'm going to have to totally disagree again
i don't think professionalism is what garners Paul fans or moves discs with his name on them. i think it is 100% big wins and being ice cold in the clutch.
social media presence, personality, commitment to the game and growing the sport, etc can be big for upcoming players but nobody is a fan of players without skills and wins under their belts. i'll also concede that professionalism makes a difference in terms of sponsorships and that the $1m and $10m deals may not have happened for Paul without it. that said, i think it's the smallest possible factor in Paul's overall success and unquestionable dominance as the premiere player in the sport.
i don't think professionalism is what garners Paul fans or moves discs with his name on them. i think it is 100% big wins and being ice cold in the clutch.
social media presence, personality, commitment to the game and growing the sport, etc can be big for upcoming players but nobody is a fan of players without skills and wins under their belts. i'll also concede that professionalism makes a difference in terms of sponsorships and that the $1m and $10m deals may not have happened for Paul without it. that said, i think it's the smallest possible factor in Paul's overall success and unquestionable dominance as the premiere player in the sport.
Thx for the dialog btw. There is no doubt, Eagle is going to win tournaments, but so will Lizotte, Jones, Heimburg, Wysocki, Conrad, Sexton, and several others. Anyone of those players could dominate a single tournament at any time. I don't see anyone of them dominating over and over enough to stand out as the next McBeth.
My criteria to be the next McBeth starts with being a 5X or more champ. But with all the competition and the fact that you need only to win 1 tournament to be crowned world champ makes it harder every year to win that event more than once imop. Hence my gut feeling we may never see another McBeth. Should the criteria to be called the next McBeth be something else?
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I'm now 18 months into Disc Golf, and a year into watching Disc Golf going back to the 2018 season, almost done with 2019.
What the next Paul McBeth needs is some charisma to attract a larger audience, on top of a growing audience. Pull in people from the outside, get a name out there past Disc Golf. Someone that can attract a big name sponsor outside of Disc Golf. Someone like Arnold Palmer, Lee Trevino (met both), Muhammed Ali, Michael Jorden etc. Paul McBeth is the greatest, put his personality is not going to attract people from the outside. I had never even heard of him until a few months after I started playing and found this site.
From what I could tell Simon is the closes with the charisma, but his game is so up and down.
Its possible Eagle could surpass Paul in the game? At this time Eagle's personality is evolving, and that seem to of started when he injured his hand in 2019 and missed time. That gave him time to reflect on his game and himself, he's been evolving. He's getting himself out there with his broadcast, he's awkward at this time, but that will change. Give him a few years, and just maybe he'll have that charisma? He already interacts with the fans, and that will help.
I also have watched a ton of lower A tier and B tournaments, their are a few who may have the skills to make to the tour, but nobody to separate themselves with personality.
What the next Paul McBeth needs is some charisma to attract a larger audience, on top of a growing audience. Pull in people from the outside, get a name out there past Disc Golf. Someone that can attract a big name sponsor outside of Disc Golf. Someone like Arnold Palmer, Lee Trevino (met both), Muhammed Ali, Michael Jorden etc. Paul McBeth is the greatest, put his personality is not going to attract people from the outside. I had never even heard of him until a few months after I started playing and found this site.
From what I could tell Simon is the closes with the charisma, but his game is so up and down.
Its possible Eagle could surpass Paul in the game? At this time Eagle's personality is evolving, and that seem to of started when he injured his hand in 2019 and missed time. That gave him time to reflect on his game and himself, he's been evolving. He's getting himself out there with his broadcast, he's awkward at this time, but that will change. Give him a few years, and just maybe he'll have that charisma? He already interacts with the fans, and that will help.
I also have watched a ton of lower A tier and B tournaments, their are a few who may have the skills to make to the tour, but nobody to separate themselves with personality.
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i do agree with all of this. i just meant that i don't think there are a bunch of people (or any really) with Eagle's physical skills. i also don't think he'll ever be the next McBeth and probably not even a multiple world champ.
i think a future player could dominate the sport in a way similar to McBeth in the last decade but to your point, that probably won't mean 5+ world championships. depending on how the level of the elite field shakes out in the next 5-10 years, you're probably right that we will need a new criteria.
Zach doesn't seem to have the gifts.Zach is local and imo has a chance to go big in his future. That young and throws the way he does is amazing. His head seems to be his biggest problem and that will improve with age and maturity.
Not saying he'll be the next Paul but he has a good chance of getting closer than anyone else I know*.
*I don't pay attention to others so if you asked "what about XYZ" my answer will be, I never heard of them.
A lot of guys more gifted than Arlinghaus seem likely to have the head game you need. I'll be shocked if Zach is anything more than a solid touring pro.
Right? Ezra is OLDER than Eagle.
What other 16 year olds are you talking about?
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It is a strange thread.
Eagle was mentioned as a guy who had a chance and missed, though he is 22, top 5, has all kinds of big wins, and nobody would bat an eyelash at anyone picking him to beat McBeth on any given day (each won 2 tours last year, McBeth was 5-3-1 against Eagle in tourneys).
The guys named are Ezra, Kyle Klein, and Zach A. Ezra is likeable and has muscles. Kyle Klein has a lot of good results at a young age, but hasn't really won anything. Zach A is just young. I see no reason why anyone would pick any of those guys over Eagle.
Eagle was mentioned as a guy who had a chance and missed, though he is 22, top 5, has all kinds of big wins, and nobody would bat an eyelash at anyone picking him to beat McBeth on any given day (each won 2 tours last year, McBeth was 5-3-1 against Eagle in tourneys).
The guys named are Ezra, Kyle Klein, and Zach A. Ezra is likeable and has muscles. Kyle Klein has a lot of good results at a young age, but hasn't really won anything. Zach A is just young. I see no reason why anyone would pick any of those guys over Eagle.
Eagle and Oskari Vikstrom would seem to have the best chance just because of their ages and arm talent, but I don't think either will accomplish as much as McBeth just because there's so much more parity now. Consider that even McBeth himself --who has been at or around 1050 rating for seemingly forever---only has one world title since 2015.
Not sure what you mean by "other" 16 year olds, given Arlinghaus turns 18 in six months. Not a big distinction, 17 or 16 - he's still a great talent. But physically he just doesn't appear to measure up. That isn't to say he couldn't overachieve his measurables - Paul definitely has.
If you want a name that actually *is* 16 (maybe, he might still be 15 I can't find a birthdate) I'd go with Isaiah Esquivel. He's physically got the sort of length that tends to grow into a ton of power, he hit 990 for the first time last fall when he was definitely still 15, achieved 980 for the first time back when he was 14. Seems to be ahead of Arlinghaus' pace in terms of ratings profile. He also beat Arlinghaus by 10 at junior worlds when he was 2 years Arlinghaus' junior.
I really think Worlds being a four round event has really hurt what it does to measure our best players. Over 4 rounds - lower rated players have a much better chance at having an outlier event. In 2008, had Worlds been a 4 round event, Nikko Locastro would have won by 3 shots. Instead? He tied for 10th with Climo over the course of the 8 rounds from Round 1 through Semis, 5 shots back of playing in Finals.
raceface59
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I'd imagine that with the explosion in disc golf's popularity, the talent pool is going to get awfully crowded over the next few years, making it more difficult to dominate enough to win "the Stanley Cup" year after year after year. Now that a 10 million dollar contract has been thrown down, that becomes a nice lure for tons of unknowns to focus on getting to work.
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