The question they wouldn't ask

[DavidSauls]

ditto.

i have put in multiple courses, run about 20 pdga events including A-tiers, and been a state and regional coordinator for over a decade but am no longer a member- why would they want to hear what i have to say?

Perhaps they would....in another format?

When asking how a membership organization should be run, it certainly seems appropriate to survey the membership.

 

[1978]

Where do I sign up for the 1978 fan club? Excellent post!

Bangin' Baskets at Bailey Hole in One Challenge this Sunday. Bailey Road Park, Cornelius NC. Sign ins are at 8:30 and proceeds go directly to the new course Im building in Cornelius.

 

[dgar]

As a relative newbie to the sport, don't know how relevant my point of view is...

But I became interested in DG because of a local course in a very busy park in my town.. it was seeing the course driving by that piqued my interest ( its high visibility). Now after a few months playing I meet up with local club every Thursday night and play a handicap league certainly non sanctioned.

Ive been to the PDGA web site.. ehhh .. I get more info right here at DGCR. As far as the PDGA the only mention I see of it is when I have to pay an additional 10 dollars if I want to play in a sanctioned tournament, sure Id like to see how I'd do in a tournament, but Id be playing basically the same folks I play with every Thursday night... I'm the majority, non PDGA member that enjoys the sport... Really I see no benefit to me or growing the sport by joining... just this newbies point of view..

I tend to agree with 1978 post... build the base first.

 

[smyith]

Perhaps they would....in another format?

When asking how a membership organization should be run, it certainly seems appropriate to survey the membership.

although i agree with you, i do think it is important to ask non renewing members why they chose not to renew? especially considering the poor retention rate. maybe there is something a good portion of past members want that current members dont care about. and those things could make the difference between high and low retention of members.
Do i think this particular survey should be sent to past members, no. but i do think they should come up with a survey specifically for those people.

 

[1978]

"The larger problem is that while the 20,000 PDGA members, IMO, should be focused on over the 200 touring pro's....neither should be the focus of the PDGA. The 350 million NON pdga members should be the focus. You do that with good maintained courses, youth programs, and community awareness."

Just to aid discussion, and stepping outside myself for a moment -

The counter argument to the quote above, just to keep perspective, is that an organization should indeed be serving its current members as a strong focus. "Not yet members" should a focus, but serving your existing base is vital (or neglecting them by contrast is disastrous) Providing succinct member services and member benefits (don't have to be tangible) is how you serve your core reason for existence. Sport evangelism is noble, but to be effective, it has to come from a situation where you as an organization are in place of valid strength and security.

Not yet members can be broken into that part of the operating pie graph labeled "membership promotions", "sport awareness" etc, etc. That slice of the pie is important, but likely not the biggest slice.

I would caution that we also take a brief look at the last three items listed - good maintained courses, youth programs, community awareness

1. Are looking to see the PDGA come out and maintain actual courses across the continent? or fly out and put the sleeves in the ground themselves? or are we talking again about promotion, standards and design advice and/or empowerment? (things that are cheaper by far - empowering central resources and reference) (and by resources, I don't mean bankrolling your equipment)

2. Youth programs - are we looking to payroll people to do the actual youth programs (expensive and inefficient), or again are we talking about empowering (by resources and reference and networking aid) to those who are already passionate about it already?

3. Community awareness - are we talking about increasing the operating budget in the realm of traditional advertising? radio/ TV time? (sports network deals..) Or again empowering the multitude of local boots on the ground local promoters, and giving them a scaffold for doing what they are already passionate about doing? Or are we being increasingly served by other agents in the free market that are increasingly doing that job ever better - Ice Bowl, Worlds Biggest, type movements, Manufacturer driven two disc product promo events (rapidly expanding and effective) Do we see the PDGA as the "do-er" of these activities, or the spark stimulus and resource helper?

Personally, I think the either/or set up of the OP question was really leading. I'd be dissapointed to select either one. I also imagine the second selection would lead to many wanting a "I put in 50, I want 50 out tangible outcome for ME!" which wouldnt make sense.

1. No but a unified professional organization leaves a better presentation than a bunch of Cammo short wearing disc golfers with loppers and push saws. The park departments across the country need to do more to maintain their parks, including disc golf. PDGA involvement would be to support local DG crews with professional presentation. If the PDGA will send representatives to Worlds for example... why cant they present at what ever local government meetings are going on in those areas while they are in town? I dont know, I dont really care about the PDGA BOD, or policies. Im an action kind of person. I work my @$$ off for DG almost every day, while carrying a full time job, life, and enough skill to be called a bagger. Thats what I do, regardless of what my local club or the PDGA does. Id probably have more ideas but I just had a potluck lunch and I am a bit weary.

2. Empowering, providing people passionate with the ability to raise up youth programs...like Edge does but on a national level. Perhaps a grand application program for material donated to the PDGA or funding for new courses or equipment.

3. No one, litterally, if you look at it statistic wise knows what an Icebowl or the PDGA is. Less than 1 in 2000-3000 people? I bet that is even conservative. Seems statistically insignificant compared to even the LPGA. So yes, I'd rather a chunk of money be spent on getting the Kardashians or an MTV Rivals II challenge to play DG on one of their forced reality shows, than a similar amount of money spent on Worlds. I might have to rethink that not knowing how much that would cost. I raised up an idea that went no where with my local club. Had a friend who was a salesman for a company that owned 75% of the billboards in Charlotte. at any one time they are 80% free. I asked if they would donate space to a 501C3 and he was open to it. Empty billboards do no one any good. At least they would be getting the tax benefit.

I dont have all the answers, however, I am confident that spending $2000 on a billboard in Dallas Fort Worth, targeted to families and healthy living would encourage first timers to play. (not sure if they do this->) Adding $2000 to a pro purse adds no one to the sport. Obviously, the scope of the PDGA is very limited, however, the key is to make the most impact in your limited circle of influence. It is their job to come up with solutions, Im just stating my opinion on where their focus should be. (Course installation, maintenance, community awareness, and youth)

Someone mentioned that the PDGA is there to support its members. Well then, what would the majority rather: Going from 200 TP and 20K members to 220 touring pros and 60,000 playing members. I still think you would better served supporting the base of your pyramid. I love 400 people tournaments.

 

[Hyzer Ale]

As a relative newbie to the sport, don't know how relevant my point of view is...

But I became interested in DG because of a local course in a very busy park in my town.. it was seeing the course driving by that piqued my interest ( its high visibility). Now after a few months playing I meet up with local club every Thursday night and play a handicap league certainly non sanctioned.

Ive been to the PDGA web site.. ehhh .. I get more info right here at DGCR. As far as the PDGA the only mention I see of it is when I have to pay an additional 10 dollars if I want to play in a sanctioned tournament, sure Id like to see how I'd do in a tournament, but Id be playing basically the same folks I play with every Thursday night... I'm the majority, non PDGA member that enjoys the sport... Really I see no benefit to me or growing the sport by joining... just this newbies point of view..

I tend to agree with 1978 post... build the base first.

Although I have been playing for about 4 years I only play 1-2 PDGA sanctioned tournaments a year an haven't really seen the need to join.

 

[1978]

FIXED, I must be tired.

1. No but a unified professional organization leaves a better presentation than a bunch of Cammo short wearing disc golfers with loppers and push mowers. The park departments across the country need to do more to maintain their parks, including disc golf. PDGA involvement would be to support local DG crews with professional presentation. If the PDGA will send representatives to Worlds for example... why cant they present at what ever local government meetings are going on in those areas while they are in town? I dont know, I dont really care about the PDGA BOD, or policies. Im an action kind of person. I work my @$$ off for DG almost every day, while carrying a full time job, life, and enough skill to be called a bagger. Thats what I do, regardless of what my local club or the PDGA does. Id probably have more ideas but I just had a potluck lunch and I am a bit weary.

2. Empowering, providing passionate people with the ability to raise up youth programs...like Edge does but on a national level. Perhaps a grant application program for material donated to the PDGA or funding for new courses or equipment.

3. No one, litterally, if you look at it statistic wise, no one knows what an Icebowl or the PDGA is. Less than 1 in 2000-3000 people? I bet that is even conservative. Seems statistically insignificant compared to even the LPGA. So yes, I'd rather a chunk of money be spent on getting the Kardashians or an MTV Rivals II challenge to play DG on one of their forced reality shows, than a similar amount of money spent on Worlds. I might have to rethink that not knowing how much that would cost. I raised up an idea that went no where with my local club. Had a friend who was a salesman for a company that owned 75% of the billboards in Charlotte. At any one time they are 80% empty. I asked if they would donate space to a 501C3 and he was open to it. Empty billboards do no one any good. At least they would be getting the tax benefit.

I dont have all the answers, however, I am confident that spending $2000 on a billboard in Dallas Fort Worth, targeted to families and healthy living would encourage first timers to play. (not sure if they do this->) Adding $2000 to a pro purse adds no one to the sport. Obviously, the scope of the PDGA is very limited, however, the key is to make the most impact in your limited circle of influence. It is their job to come up with solutions, Im just stating my opinion on where their focus should be. (Course installation, maintenance, community awareness, and youth)

Someone mentioned that the PDGA is there to support its members. Well then, what would the majority rather: Going from 200 TP and 20K members to 220 touring pros and 60,000 playing members. I still think you would better served supporting the base of your pyramid. I love 400 people tournaments.

 

[New013]

The more this sport grows the more this question will come up. Regardless of how you feel what is clear to me is that eventually two separate organizations will be needed so each can focus it's time and effort in a way that is fair to both entities.

Every other major sport in the world has separate entities when it comes to the overall governing body of the sport and the professional league or associations. Disc golf if it ever desires to be on a major level should be no different.

Personally I'm not even really sure what the PDGA is doing for amateur players other than having a central system in which to organize tournaments and I'm not saying they don't do more I just don't see it so I'm unaware of their efforts.

However with the pros it's very clear the amount of money that is being poured in to that part of the spectrum and yes I think that's totally bogus. The pros aren't generating enough of money for so much of the pie coming from Ams to be put towards the goal of mainstream professional disc golf.

The fact the PDGA shelled out 30K, if this is accurate, for the worlds broadcast on DGP in my mind is crazy considering a majority of the people who contributed to that weren't even given the opportunity view the broadcasts for free.

 

[scarpfish]

Kind of the whole problem with the PDGA is that a great heap of the 20,000 don't seem to give much attention to the board's actions. Their primary motivation for joining the PDGA in the first place was a mathematical self serving one to not have to pay an extra $10 plus have the ability to play A-tier events and majors.

Thing is, come election time, most of those folks didn't even bother to vote. I wonder how many of them will actually turn the survey in.

 

[DavidSauls]

although i agree with you, i do think it is important to ask non renewing members why they chose not to renew? especially considering the poor retention rate. maybe there is something a good portion of past members want that current members dont care about. and those things could make the difference between high and low retention of members.
Do i think this particular survey should be sent to past members, no. but i do think they should come up with a survey specifically for those people.

Absolutely. Polling ex-members is a great idea.

 

[scarpfish]

I think asking ex-members why they left is a good idea, but I think the majority in that camp, myself included, have done so because of a "life happens" sort of situation that made the time, money and sweat of attending PDGA events cost prohibitive. It the sort of thing that the PDGA can't do much about. When you have an organization with a lot of twenty somethings who are on the verge of starting careers and families, high membership attrition just comes with the territory.

 

[DavidSauls]

Even that would be worth knowing. The survey included retention stats; if you knew that for, say, 2/3 of the non-renewals, there was little the PDGA could have done, it still sheds light on the figure.

I suspect many are people who just tried out tournament play, and decided not to stick with it.

 

[smyith]

Even that would be worth knowing. The survey included retention stats; if you knew that for, say, 2/3 of the non-renewals, there was little the PDGA could have done, it still sheds light on the figure.

I suspect many are people who just tried out tournament play, and decided not to stick with it.

thats my guess too. but it would also be nice to find out from those people what the pdga could offer.

 

[DJdarkness73]

I still think that we need to take a look at Bowling, Pool, Darts and the like as an example to follow. They don't funnel money towards a pro tour. They focus their efforts on the amateur and juvenile level to grow the base and standardize play and let the equipment manufacturers figure out how to get the money to pay the pros.

 

[tom12003]

I think the results are going to be skewed unless there is an effort to include somebody like me with a number that is not current. Nobody from the PDGA has ever asked my why I'm not current. I think that would be important information to try to gather. There are a bunch of people like me that would be easy to reach; I'm not hiding, I'm hanging out here on DGCR.

I hope you are sending Tim the $25/yr for premium DGCR status; the way to sustain this site.

 

[MrFixIt]

This was an interesting read. As a player I've never seen the benefits of joining the PDGA other than saving $10 for tourney registrations.
A close friend of mine is a member and we have discussed my joining many times. He always says "Think about the educational benefits to the kids."
I haven't seen any of that other than the PDGA providing discs at a discounted price.
I still haven't seen any arguement that would sway me to join as of yet.

 

[Three Putt]

I hope you are sending Tim the $25/yr for premium DGCR status; the way to sustain this site.

Eh, I volunteer my time to send PM's to trolls. I think we are even. :|

 

[Bhoffman09]

I dont agree at all with Turbosteve. Most growth in the sport comes from outside of the PDGA. It comes from a large quantity of quality courses in good playable condition near people who haven't picked up the sport. These courses need to be close to major sporting good retailers that also carry discs. Dicks, Sports Authority, Wal-Mart, REI.

I feel the PDGA should be focused on youth or school programs like E.D.G.E, supporting disc golf course building through traveling teams of representatives that can help build, design, or give presentations to low disc golf density communities. Coddling 200 pro's is not a good focus if we are going to grow the sport. This comes from major sponsorship. Major sponsorship comes from a large base, growing the base is the most important thing. Its organic. The more players, the more they seek tournaments, become PDGA members. Start at the bottom of the pyramid where the numbers are higher, and PDGA growth will happen regardless.

The question posed, however, is a problem. It is obvious what the question's writer wants you to answer. So, it is a bad question. If I said. 200 people have genetically deformed left feet and 20,000 have genetically deformed right feet, which should we focus genetic research on... most would select, 20,000.

The larger problem is that while the 20,000 PDGA members, IMO, should be focused on over the 200 touring pro's....neither should be the focus of the PDGA. The 350 million NON pdga members should be the focus. You do that with good maintained courses, youth programs, and community awareness.

I agree with the course promotion and that the question is leading the voter towards a response of B. The PDGA is also able to do both, as David Sauls has said. The PDGA should encourage, be mindful of, and promote the pro tour, but I think it would be wrong to say this is where the growth would come from.

Seeing the PBA on ESPN on Sundays doesn't make me want to go bowling... Having a half price bowling night at my local alley once a week does.

 

[1978]

I agree with the course promotion and that the question is leading the voter towards a response of B. The PDGA is also able to do both, as David Sauls has said. The PDGA should encourage, be mindful of, and promote the pro tour, but I think it would be wrong to say this is where the growth would come from.

Seeing the PBA on ESPN on Sundays doesn't make me want to go bowling... Having a half price bowling night at my local alley once a week does.

Congrats on the wedding. I'll give you half off the next time you come to glow.

 

[Ripper]

why are you posting this other than to stir the pot? you quit and let people down. move along.

Yeah, I wasted my vote. :wall::|